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Home • Liberals in Action • 20 Jesus
Quotes That Will Make Conservatives’ Heads Explode

20 Jesus Quotes That
Will Make Conservatives’ Heads Explode

Posted by: Elisabeth
Parker in Liberals in Action, Most Popular on AATTP, Op-Ed, Religion
April 20, 2014

Conservatives keep nattering on and on about how much they love Jesus Christ,
our purported Savior. But when you read the following 20 quotes
from the New Testament, you’ll wonder what Bible they’re reading. Dictionary.Com defines the word “Christian” as
follows:

Chris·tian [kris-chuhn]  adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith. 2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ:Spain is a Christian country. 3. of or pertaining to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades. 4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity. 5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial.

So, a Christian either is like Jesus Christ, tries to act like Jesus
Christ or follows his teachings? Alas, this definition doesn’t sound at all like
the conservative so-called “Christians” we keep reading and hearing about in the
news.

Jesus Christ to conservative “Christians”: “Whatchoo
talkin’ about, Rush?” Image: “Christ Carrying the Cross” by Titian,
1570-1575.

Here are 20 quotes from Jesus Christ for our conservative Christian friends
to ponder.

(1) “Verily, verily, I say unto you,
The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than
he that sent him.” [John 13:16 KJV]

Jesus clearly favors an egalitarian society, yet conservatives have done
everything they can to promote public policies that steal from the poor,
give to the rich, and screw the middle class. The GOP’s stubborn votes against
food stamps and rejection of state Medicare expansions proves they don’t even
care about the people who voted them into office.

(2) “Judge not, that ye be not
judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2 KJV]

Jesus Christ commands his followers not to be judgmental towards their
neighbors, yet these right wingers can’t stop themselves from making arbitrary
judgments about LGBTs, single mothers, people of color, immigrants,
non-Christians, poor people, and just about everyone who isn’t white, rich,
male, and “Christian.”

(3) “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy
brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” [Luke 6:41 KJV]

Jesus Christ’s famous quote about hypocrisy back in Ye Olde New
Testament times explains why conservative Christians say one thing and mean
another. They talk about the “sanctity of marriage” between “one man and one
woman” while their leaders cheat on their spouses, seek gay sex on the
down low, talk obsessively about rape, cheat on taxes, abuse drugs (prescription
or not), and engage in illegal acts. Yet, they’re the first to throw a
non-violent, first-time drug offender in prison or claim a rape victim was
“asking for it.”

(4) “Blessed are the peacemakers:
for they shall be called the children of God.” [Matthew 5:9 KJV]

Jesus Christ preached peace, love, and kindness to his followers, yet
conservative Christians are always the first to blast the trumpets of war. If
they had their way, we’d still be in Afghanistan and Iraq, plus we’d be sending
U.S. armed forces into Palestine, the Ukraine, and our local homeless
encampments.

(5) “Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not,
neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth
them. Are ye not much better than they?” [Matthew
6:26]

If the previous quotes make Jesus Christ sound mildly liberal, this one makes
Our Savior sound like a Goddamned hippie Communist. Right-wing Christians love
heaping scorn on people who get help from the U.S. government, with no thought
to whether their troubles are temporary or they’ve paid into the system. Even a
lot of left-leaning Democrats demand that people on welfare be held
“accountable.” Yet here’s Jesus saying that we should all be fed and cared
for — regardless of our morals or how hard we work — just
because we exist and God loves us. And as for those lazy, do-nothing “fowls of
the air,” Jesus doesn’t even think we worker bees are any better than
them.

(6) “He that is without sin among you,
let him first cast a stone at her.” [John 8:7 KJV]

Unlike today’s conservative Christians, who eagerly serve in the vanguard of
the GOP’s war on women, Jesus Christ
has no regard for double standards that hold men and women to different
rules. At least four women — his mother, Mary Madgelene, and the sisters Mary
and Martha — were beloved members of his inner circle. When a
crowd gathered to stone a woman to death for the “crime” of adultery, Jesus
stopped them dead in their tracks by demanding that the person without sin cast
the first stone.

(7) “But whoever has this world’s goods,
and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love
of God abide in him?”[1 John 3:17 KJV]

How can a conservative so-called “Christian” read this passage and keep
voting for people who give tax cuts to the rich, while slashing programs
that feed families, care for the elderly and disabled, house the homeless,
provide healthcare, protect consumers, and keep our air and water clean?

(8) “Then Jesus went about all the
cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the
kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.” [Matthew 9:35]

Jesus Christ famously roamed the Holy Land giving free healthcare to
everyone in need. Even many non-Bible readers are familiar with Our Savior’s
healing exploits. Yet, His conservative “Christian” followers in
Congress are adamantly opposed to giving Americans access to healthcare.
Instead, they waste U.S. taxpayers’ time and money over and over again trying to
repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA) even though their GOP lawmakers helped
design the program, and their 2012 presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, had
great success with a similar program during his tenure as Mass. state governor.
Go figure.

(9) “Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto
men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.” [Matthew 23:28 KJV]

This biblical passage comes straight from the Savior’s mouth, and describes
our country’s conservative Christians to a tee(minus some of the other things
they’re “full of”).

(10) “And found in the temple those
that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when
he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and
the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the
tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my
Father’s house an house of merchandise.”[John 2:14-16 KJV]

Unlike our Mammon-worshipping
conservative Christians, Jesus Christ clearly loathes capitalism. Pretty
much the only time
we ever see
Jesus totally lose his cool and go into an Incredible Hulk-like rage is when he
returns to Jerusalem with his disciples, and finds the Temple clogged
with bankers and vendors. He doesn’t just yell at them, He totally goes
apesh*t, wrecks their booths, and drives them out with whips He
somehow manages to improvise and fashion on the spur of the moment. One can only
imagine how Jesus would feel about Wall Street, the Koch brothers, and
ALEC.

(11) “And again I say unto you, It
is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to
enter into the kingdom of God.” [Matthew 19:24 KJV]

If you’ve got any doubt about how Jesus Christ would feel about income
inequality, the Supreme Court’s Citizens United ruling, or rich CEOs raking in huge profits
while crusading against a long-overdue minimum wage hike, this passage makes it
pretty clear that making profits at other people’s expense gives you bad karma
in the Great Beyond.

(12) “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt
love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all
thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto
it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all
the law and the prophets.” [Matthew 22:37-40 KJV]

When Jesus Christ’s adoring
crowds asked which of the 10 Commandments are the most important ones for them to
follow, Jesus turned around and
changed the rules. He said that if we first love God, and then love our
neighbor, the rest would follow naturally. It’s hard to see how denying gays the
right to marry and cutting anti-poverty programs follows Jesus’ teachings. Yet,
our conservative “Christian” lawmakers insist this is what we should
do.

(13) “And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the
hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you,
They have their reward.” [Matthew 6:5 KJV]

Conservative Christians claim to
love Jesus, and seem to adore shouting their faith from atop their soap boxes
any chance they get. But the real Jesus Christ scorned these showy – and
often phony – displays of piety, and went out of his way to preach against
them.

(14) “But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have
mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.” [Matthew 12:7 KJV]

Jesus Christ always preached mercy for women, children, sinners, criminals,
the poor, and even his own enemies. Yet, today’s conservative Christians demand
retroactive abortions the death penalty and insist
that children who commit crimes should be charged as adults.

(15) “But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart;
give ye them to eat.” [Matthew 14:16 KJV]

Jesus Christ always wanted to feed people and extend hospitality to
strangers, no matter what their circumstances. Yet, conservative, so-called
“Christians” seek to cut back on food stamps and deport immigrants — or bar them
from entry.

(16) “And
he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to
be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.” [Luke 11:46 KJV]

Thank you, GOP lawmakers, for passing laws and promoting policies that make
things harder for most of your fellow Americans.

(17) “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be
much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the
more.” [Luke 12:48 KJV]

Or, as President John F. Kennedy more succinctly states, “To those whom much is given, much is
expected.” Alas, conservative Christians have gotten this all mixed up. They
think that to those whom much is given, much can be expected.
Oops.

(18) “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy
laden, and I will give you rest.” [Matthew: 11:28 KJV]

Unlike today’s right-wing so-called “Christians,” Jesus Christ sympathized
with those who work day-to-day to scrape by, and preached that they
would get their reward. Meanwhile, Republicans refuse to even consider
raising the minimum wage to keep up with the cost of living.

(19) “For I was an hungred, and ye gave
me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me
in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison,
and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw
we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we
thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we
thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say
unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the
least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” [Matthew 25:34-40 KJV]

The Christian Right keeps ranting about
how raising taxes to pay for programs that help the poor and folks who find
themselves in a jam is somehow like forcing us into slavery. But Jesus Christ’s views on feeding, clothing,
and helping people in need is unequivocal: He sees it as directly serving
Him.

(20) “Then shall he say also unto them on
the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for
the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was
thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.” [Matthew 25:41-43 KJV]

In case the previous half of this passage doesn’t make Jesus Christ’s
views abundantly clear, Our Saviour gets more specific. He says that on
Judgment Day, He will look askance at people who refused to help those less
fortunate than themselves. Not only that, Jesus Christ will curse them and
cast them away “into everlasting fire.” It’s shocking that conservative
“Christians” keep ignoring this. Maybe someday, they’ll find religion.

20 quotes Bible Bible
Verses christian conservative Definition Dictionary GOP
Jesus Christ Jesus quotes john Luke Matthew New Testament quotations quotes Republicans Right right
wing right-wing christianity teachings 2014-04-20

Elisabeth
Parker

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About Elisabeth Parker

Elisabeth
Parker is a writer, editor, web designer, mom, political junkie, and
dilettante. "Like" her on Facebook, follow her on
Twitter, check out her Pinterest
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+. For more AATTP articles by Elisabeth, click
here.

williamsommerwerck

@jared… What have the Waltons (and I don’t mean John and Olivia) been doing
lately to make the world a better place? Whom have they personally given food
to eat or clothes to wear? You know that little sign in some Wal-marts about
donating money to poor employees so they can have a nice Thanksgiving dinner?
Why don’t they donate it?
The obvious missing quote is the one about how
hard it is for the wealthy to enter Heaven.

If you believe that simply accepting Jesus as your savior — with his death
atoning for your sins — will get you into Heaven, you are sadly mistaken. Not
only is this a pagan belief in the “scapegoat”, but it is directly
contradicted by Jesus. Take a look at Matthew 5:43-48, and read it carefully.
What is Jesus actually saying?
Those who wish to delve into this further
might want to read “Jesus or Christianity — a Study in Contrasts”, a 1929 book
by Kirby Page, a noted theologian. (A PDF is available on
line.)

062014

How can you say the author is ignorant? There are direct quotes in the
article. Don’t you listen to Jesus? Are you saying Jesus is ignorant??? If
you believe, you follow His words and deeds. If you don’t follow them, it is
apparent you are NOT a believer. I call such people “self proclaimed”
Christians (most are “conservative Christians”) because they don’t follow
Christ and in those very actions they are showing a lack of belief and faith.
It sounds like some ministers fall into this group when they don’t inform
their congregation that “ways and actions speak louder than words. Many prefer
to wallow in the Old Testament, which is history (the old covenant) and ignore
Jesus. And these are the very people who would spit on Christ today if he
walked the earth and they probably don’t listen to the Pope: a mere man, to
me, who is the most Christlike person I have come across in my 60
years.

ladyvader

Why do you feel the need to pray for anyone? It does nothing for them,
only you.

ladyvader

What good does praying do? Does it make you feel better about yourself?
It does absolutely nothing for the person you’re praying for.

smb11

What harm does praying do?

boB

Being a hard believer in logic, I considered a point-by-point discussion on
how you completely missed the entire theme of the article you reacted to.

However, I decided to limit myself to pointing out that the article’s
author is not misunderstanding Jesus, they are pointing out the differences
between the political “conservative Christian” and the teachings of Jesus.
The author appears to have a very good grasp on those teachings, with the
stress on helping others, and a very good understanding of what the Christian
conservative movement in America looks like.

boB

Right Hooper, because you would certainly never do anything like make a
blanket assertion with no evidence, ya know, like “Just because you don’t
understand what Jesus is saying doesn’t mean that they don’t.” without citing
what you feel the reader does not understand that you do.

Shadow Diver

Those verses are clear as a bell, Sparky, as is the fact that you people
you use the name of Christ for political purposes and have zero love for his
teachings. You are all going to hell.

troothinus

Don’t have to shout about it.

Brian Forbes

A text without context is a pretext. So let’s get some context.
1.
There will be wolves in sheep’s clothing. By their fruits you will recognize
them. (Mt. 7:15)
2,3. Mt. 7:1 does not say that we should never evaluate
right vs. wrong. It says not to condemn people or write them off. It’s
elaborated in Luke 6:37. If we were never to evaluate the activities of
others, the prophets, apostles and all around righteous men of scripture would
be downright sinful. Read Lev. 19:17 – confront your neighbor. And that
verse is just a couple removed from love your neighbor, so keep them both in
mind as you do.
4. Amen. With one caveat. Numbers 25:8.
5. 2
Thessalonians 3:10
6. “Go and sin no more.” (Same passage.) I dare you to
find one example in scripture where willful and unrepentant sin was forgiven.
Jesus forgave sins of ignorance (“forgive them, because they don’t know what
they’re doing”), but unless there’s repentance, there’s no forgiveness.
7.
Amen.
8. This issue is too complex to tackle with a bullet point.
9.
Politicians are often full of things that are not genuine.
10,11. Amen.
Greed is evil.
12. Jesus never changed anything. (Mt. 5:17-19) He
clarified the Law of God, and prophesied the judgment of the religious order
of the day, but nothing about God’s law was changed by Jesus. I’m not sure
how that demonstrates that gay marriage should be allowed.
13. Amen.
14.
1/2 Amen.
15. Amen.
16. Amen. But the glove fits on both hands.
17.
Amen.
18. There was a disconnect in the argument here.
19. Amen.
20.
I believe you’ll find that Mt. 7:23 doesn’t just say that they were condemned
for not feeding the poor. It quite distinctly calls them “anomian” – which in
Greek means that they were Torah-less – or without God’s instructions. How
could people who prophesied and drove out demons be completely without Law?
Obviously they were keeping some of what God commands. I believe it’s
precisely the taking passages out of context and being selective in their own
works that got them condemned. You can be an upstanding member of society and
a pedophile. James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at
just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

So let’s help the poor and condemn the rich and greedy! But let’s not take
scripture out of context to do it.

Edward Strulky

So, in your book, even though income taxes are theft, it’s Ok as long as it
goes for essential service?

First of all, essential services such as police and fire, also roads and
bridges, are paid for with such things as local property taxes, gasoline tax,
registration and licensing fees.

Taxation for privilege is fine. For example, creating a corporation to
protect your assets and taxing the corporation is one example of taxing a
privilege. The gasoline tax is another good example. Driving on the nations
roads is a privilege.

Taxes on income is theft. exchanging your labor for compensation is a right
and not a privilege. Taxes on rights turn rights into government granted
privileges.

To use taxes to help the poor is not compassion. You get no moral credit
for giving other people’s stolen money to the poor.

To give money or volunteer yourself to help the poor is compassion. There
is great joy in helping the needy. There is nothing good about giving money
obtained through the barrel of a gun.

paul fredine

really? you must not be paying attention to brian because that’s exactly
what he’s saying.

smb11

In a secular world, a business must follow secular rules. Unless the
bakery is a church, there should be no exemption from secular rules. Serving
everyone us the price of doing business. There is no religious exemption for
bigotry.

paul fredine

except for taxes. and it’s time to change that, too since more and more
churches find it is their duty to tell people how and who to vote for. tax
the churches!!

PaulOnBooks

Thank you for addressing my point.

By the way, have you just changed your name?

Denniswingo

Amen brother James…

paul fredine

why is it that so many who claim to know the bible and follow jesus, are
the first to be lacking in compassion and empathy and end up displaying
decidedly unchristian values. and those that say ‘trust in jesus’ are the
first in line with their hands out when the bottom falls out and times get
hard. think of the conservative governor of any red state who wants
government to butt-out, but when they get a flood/tornado/natural disaster
they’re the first ones in line begging for washington to throw them money, and
whining if it doesn’t come fast enough. give me a compassionate atheist over
a hypocritical christian any day.

Jay Pritcher

Further, I share your desire to help the poor and my lifestyle and
checkbook reflect that choice. Where we apparently differ is on biblical
interpretation of the government’s role in helping.There is no simple
Christian view on the role of the state. Scripture provides only limited
guidance because the dominant message of the Gospel is man’s relationship to
God and his neighbors. Although many of these principles have some application
to political relationships, the Bible gives much more guidance on how we
should treat people than when we should coerce them, which is the defining
characteristic of government.
The Bible does give guidance to the state in
some areas: to protect people’s ability to live “peaceful and quiet lives,” in
Paul’s words–in a sinful world (Rom. 13:3); provide just retribution (Rom.
3:5), & administer justice (Jer. 12:12).
However, corporate duty
differs from personal responsibility. Individuals must respond generously to
the needs and rights of their neighbors; government must regulate, coercively
yet impartially, relations between both righteous and unrighteous men. An
attempt by the state to practice personal virtue rather than public
impartiality is typified by this century’s great totalitarian levelers, the
communist & socialist revolutionaries.
In its focus on process, godly
justice and righteousness are very different from the modern notion of “social
justice,” which demands equality of economic and cultural outcomes. However
appealing the rubric of “social justice” may be, it is not a matter of
biblical justice, which guarantees a fair civil government nestled within a
larger culture in which the wealthy and powerful recognize their obligation–to
God–to help those in need.
God’s concern for the poor, the vulnerable, and
the weak is persistent, pervasive, and powerful. Little is clearer in
Scripture, Old and New Testament alike, than the duty of believers to care for
those in need, particularly widows and orphans. Notably, however, the Bible
does not vest this responsibility in the state.
The Bible exhorts people
instead to private charity. People are to lend and give freely to a neighbor
who falls into poverty (Deut 15:7-11). Even in ancient Israel, the third year
tithe – set aside for the Levite, stranger, widow and orphan (Deut 26:12) –
was administered by the priests, not the civil magistrates. Interestingly,
the state wasn’t given authority to enforce the tithe. No civil penalty was
given for witholding it. The Lord Himself promised to deal with ungenerous
oppressors and give the poor justice (Ex 22:22-25). Also, the gleaning laws
required the poor to come and gather the leftover crops themselves (Deut.
24:19), which retained both their dignity and work ethic.
The Apostle Paul
cautioned churches to reserve diaconal support only for the truly helpless (1
Timothy 5:3-16). If passed out beyond the truly helpless, you create
generational reliance on the state’s “charity” contrary to Scriptural
direction (Proverbs 6:6-8).
Finally, since the government has no resources
of its own, it must take funds from citizens to redistribute. If the
government takes money from some to distribute to others, it is no longer
charity; it becomes coercion, because it’s not volitional. In the Soviet
Union, the government outlawed private charity, probably the most important
practical outworking of a person’s Christian faith, in favor of state-directed
charity. Public “charity” which is obligatory destroys private charity which
by necessity is voluntary.
The difference between “liberal” and
“conservative” is often not always a function of principle (such as the need
to help the poor), but often a fundamental disagreement in methods (using the
state as a charity of first resort).
In general, government should provide
the legal scaffolding that allows people to try to collectively but
voluntarily solve their problems. Ultimately, a political system properly
based on liberty will enhance man’s ability to provide for his family and
others in need in his community, exercise dominion in transforming God’s
creation, and enjoy the many gifts of God.

smb11

Our government is not based on biblical teachings. The Founding Fathers
were a product of the Enlightenment. The Constitution reflects that
influence. They also lived close in time to a long period of religious wars
and were aware of the dangers of mixing politics and religion.

Whatever happened to stewardship of God’s creation? Dominion =
exploitation without accountability. Transforming God’s creation =
hubris.

Jay Pritcher

You meet the criteria from my first comment – just enough study to find
something to support your already held conclusions. Perhaps learning
history from unbiased sources would help.

Jay Pritcher

Unfortunately, these verses may appear to support your points when taken
out of the context of all of Scripture, but they don’t. You do have valid
points about how disappointingly some people act, even as they are attempting
to follow Jesus. In the US particularly, there are many “cultural” Christians
(those that proclaim themselves Christ-followers simply because their family
was Christian, they go to church, etc.). Christianity is a relationship with
the only living god, the risen savior Jesus.
As an example of taking your
points in the context of the entire Scripture, your point #2 has a parallel
passage in Luke 6:37. In the context of the surrounding verses and time-frame,
“judge not” was addressing a too-common Jewish habit of quickly judging
motives of people’s actions (similar how many still do today). However, it
does not mean “do not ever judge,” for this is sometimes our duty; but “do not
be always judging.” This becomes more evident as you look at Matthew 7:17-20,
“Every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good
tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every
tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So
then, you will know them by their fruits.” Or John 7:24, “Do not judge
according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement.”
There are far
too many assumptions and reliance upon “sound-bites” in the public square
today, rather than individuals critically thinking for themselves. This
article is an example of that lack of critical thinking and simple
regurgitation of what was heard somewhere else. There is fault on both sides
of every argument – pointing individual’s failings out (ad hominem attack)
does not further thought processes in developing solutions. They merely
further an us v. them mindset ensuring nothing gets done. At the end of the
day, we may still disagree over substantive thought but we will respect each
other and be closer to solutions.

Denniswingo

Interesting. No where in any of those verses does it say that I have to
give my money to the state, so that a bunch of liberals who don’t have the
spirit of Christ in them can distribute my money to buy the votes of the
poor.

paul fredine

moron.

Denniswingo

Jesus said that HE is our supply. He never once said go to the
government for a handout. You guys miss that part….

paul fredine

may i expand on my previous remark? so it is just the all holy
conservatives who qualify as having the ‘spirit of christ’, as you call
it? not only are you a moron, but you’re a hypocritical sanctimonious
moron. ‘whatsoever thou doest to the least of these my brethren, thou
doest unto me.’ so you criticize the government for taking care of
those who have little because people on the right…should i say ‘The
Right people’… parcel out their charity only to those they feel are
deserving, according to some arbitrary set of standards set by their
particular social and economic circle? kind of typical of those who
have an overflowing plate and feel like the rest should be satisfied
with a few crumbs that fall on the floor. and they better work for
those crumbs because, hey, nothings free.

Denniswingo

..’whatsoever thou doest to the least of these my brethren, thou
doest unto me.’.
____________________________________________

If I may continue in my instruction…..

Not once did Jesus say, give your tithes to the Roman government so
that they can help the poor and yea verily I will put that to your
account in the bank of heaven.

You are substituting government for God and for our responsibility
to help each other, something that Jesus never did.

For the rest, it is a simple straw man argument, without even the
barest of merit.

The partial truth that this site uses to bash Christians, in that
many truly do not do as God has said, does not give you the right to
arbitrarily rewrite scripture to place the government in the place of
God. It neither deserves, nor is it capable of filling that
role.

paul
fredine

your INSTRUCTION???? my, ass. who said anyone here wants or
needs your instruction??? this isn’t, though you’d apparently like
it to be, your sunday school. guess what? CLASS
DISMISSED!!

Denniswingo

Well I do realize that there are some who are incapable of
learning, or having a reasoned discourse with others that they don’t
agree with on subjects.

That you place yourself into that realm is unfortunate, for you and
for society because if we cannot reason together, then hope for the
future diminishes.

It is 100% clear, throughout the bible, that God is the supply not
only for the just, but for the unjust as well. In ancient Israel
God’s law made sure that the reapers in the fields could not gather
every last bit of grain but had to leave gleanings for the poor.

God did not direct the king to tax the citizens their grain that he
would then redistribute to the people. God expected the poor to get
off their rears and get out into the fields to glean their own grain.
He also directed those who have, to share with those who have not, as
individuals, not through the king of the state.

Not once did Jesus praise the dole used in Rome as a model to feed
his children or the poor, thus the entire premise of this website is
flawed as its entire purpose is to shame christians into sending more
of their taxes to what we know is an incompetent state that uses those
taxes to buy the votes of the poor.

paul
fredine

reason? REASON? you don’t want or expect reason. you only
want to preach and try to convince people that you and your opinions
are the only ones that are proper and correct. you don’t seek open
discussion. you won’t be satisfied until everyone falls in lockstep
with your beliefs. you can keep coming back at me all you want. i
neither want nor do i need your instruction. i find you
condescending and your sanctimony not only disturbing but
disgusting.

Denniswingo

…and your opinions are the only ones that are proper and correct.
…
______________________________________________

It is not an opinion that no where in the Bible does God, Jesus,
the prophets, or anyone else supports the idea that it is the state
that should support the poor and that the means to fund the state to
fund the poor is through taxation.

Thus the entire assumption that underpins this site is shown to be
false. Scream bloody murder if you want, but this is the truth of the
matter…

I do think that it is sad that Christians do not do enough to help
their fellow man. It could be that more would be done if the state
were not taking 40-60% of the earnings of the productive taxpayers.
Even God only asked for 10% as a tithe.

smb11

Sharing your opinion and using source material is appropriate.
“Instructing” us is arrogant and undermines any attempt at civil
discourse.

Denniswingo

Point taken. However, it was a useful tool to further draw out
Paul’s frothing reply. Thus the instructive part of that was to
illustrate the inanity of some of those who support the logical
fallacies that this site perpetuates.

smb11

One of my favorite biblical passages is about that pesky beam in
our own eye.

Denniswingo

In this I will agree, but to imply that my statement to the
untutored one is of that ilk, itself is
fallacious.

smb11

This time I won’t imply. This time I will state outright that your
posts do demonstrate that you are dealing with a beam in your own
eye.

Paul is not untutored.. I am not untutored. You are not
untutored. We have different beliefs. Unless you are God, you do not
get to determine what is the “Truth”.

Denniswingo

We may have different beliefs, but it is not a belief that no where
in the bible does it state that the state is the one to be the actor
to take taxes from the people to redistribute as it sees fit to the
poor. Modern liberals use scripture to beat Christians up regarding
this point, when no where in the book is that point sustained.

Again, if you have a counter to that based upon the words written
in the book, bring it on.

paul
fredine

glad you liked my ‘frothing reply’. i tend to get that way with
sanctimonious and condescending people who feel their supposed
intellectual superiority gives them the right to dictate how others
should believe and behave. and, naturally, it all boils down to the
inanity of others comments and not about any that may reside in those
of yours.

Denniswingo

At no point have I encouraged, or told you what to believe. I
really don’t care one way or another. Your life is your own and how
you believe is your burden, or gift. What I have done is to merely
point out that your interpretation of scripture, and also that of this
site is completely wrong. Again, whether you believe it or not is of
no consequence to me. However, when you tell me that the sky is pink,
when I am looking at it and it is clearly blue, will evoke a response.

That response is usually not for the one that believes the sky is
pink as usually even a iron bar upside the head will not convince one
otherwise. It is for those who are lurking and reading who can then
draw their own conclusions vis a vie the color of the sky, or the
interpretation of scripture.

paul
fredine

and yet in your third sentence you can’t help but state that my
interpretation is wrong, intimating that whatever you believe is the
correct. therein lies the condescension. oh, i would never try to
tell you what to believe, but what you believe is wrong. i don’t
believe i have ever tried to tell you what to believe., only what i
believe based on what i was taught over many years attending and
teaching sunday school. is it any wonder i long ago turned my back
on organized religion and, for the most part, keep my relationship
with any higher power (whatever you want to call her) strictly between
the two of us, until someone, like yourself, feels they are suddenly
qualified (and i don’t give a hairy pig’s ass how ‘qualified’ you
claim to say or think you are) to judge those beliefs. but at every
turn you seem to delight in telling me that i am wrong, going so far
as to say your reason for being here is to instruct, apparently
whether people want it or not.

Denniswingo

No, my assertion is that you have no facts, from the book, to back
up your interpretation.

That is a different thing entirely.

I don’t care what you were taught, its not in the book. If you
have evidence for your belief, from the book, please feel free to
present it.

smb11

Your post is an example if a logical fallacy you so abhor. Beliefs
are not observable facts. The color of the sky is an observable fact.
The science behind why the sky is “blue” is known. It is not based
on a belief.

Christianity is not one belief. You most likely have a group of
people, including theologians and scholars, who share your
interpretation. Their are others who adhere to a different
interpretation of scripture. This group will also contain theologians
and scholars.

Neither you nor I determine what Is “Truth”.

Denniswingo

Beliefs are not observable facts.

_____________________________________

It is not a belief that no where in the bible does any prophet,
God, or Jesus, state that the state is the preferred vehicle for
distributing aid to the poor. That is a simple analysis of the
writing. It has nothing to do with faith or belief, just analyzing
the written words. If you have a counter example you are welcome to
present it.

smb11

The Bible does not outline the responsibilities of government, nor
does it limit the responsibilities of government. “We The People” do
not need to have the Bible determine how we
govern.

Denniswingo

Yes it does, extremely clearly. In the era of the Judges in the
old testament, God lamented that the people wanted a king to rule over
them (book of Judges), and then said what that king would do. No
where did it outline that welfare would be part of it. That was God’s
role to do.

At no time did Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, Timothy, or any
other New testament writer advocate that state taking care of the
needs of the individual, poor or not.

You can not agree with that premise, but you can’t say something
that is simply not there.

smb11

Using your logic, we should have a king. Nowhere in the bible is a
representative democracy outlined. Our government is based on the
Constitution and laws passed by our elected representatives.

Neither God, Jesus nor any New Testament writer has any authority
over our government. We don’t need their permission to have goverment
“provide for the general welfare”.

Denniswingo

.Using your logic, we should have a king…

_________________________________________

Not at all. I am not the one that set up a website claiming that
the bible supports the modern liberal ideal of a welfare state, that
is your team. I am just pointing out the fallacy of the position.

——————————————————

“provide for the general welfare”.

________________________________________________

Ah, the next common liberal fallacy, this time about the
constitution. Guess what, it does not say what you just printed.
Here is what the preamble actually says..

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more
perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide
for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the
Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and
establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

The words are “promote the general welfare”. The framers knew well
the difference between promote and provide, as it clearly states that
the government must provide for the common defense.

The framers of the constitution knew that no government can ever
provide for the general welfare as that is a nebulous concept, ripe
for misuse by politicians who use that to buy votes.

Our government for 150 years promoted the general welfare with good
governance, internal improvements (canals, railroads, the interstates,
airports). It is only in recent decades with the rise of the feel
good hippy generation that good liberals like yourself have rewritten
the constitution to change promote to provide. Thus we have at its
core, the reason for most of our ills today, and the underlying reason
for an $18 trillion dollar debt.

As Maggie Thatcher famously observed, “Socialism works, until you
run out of other people’s money”.

Denniswingo

Hmmm… my reply got lost somehow…

There is nothing in anything that I said that would lead anyone to
that conclusion. All I am doing is taking the premise that this
website begins, with, which is that if Christians do not support the
liberal idea of the state providing welfare that they somehow are not
Christians. This is your team’s fallacious premise…

Second, the preamble to the Constitution does not say what you
claim it does. The preamble states….

….We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more
perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide
for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and
secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity….

The word is promote the general welfare, not provide it. The
framers of the constitution well knew that no government of free
people could ever provide for the general welfare. Government can
promote the general welfare by creating the conditions necessary
whereby the people, through their own labors can prosper.

Yours is a common liberal rewriting of the constitution. They knew
full well the difference in the meaning of the two words as it is the
proper role of government to provide for the common
defense…..

smb11

To repeat what I wrote in reply to your earlier post on my
misstatement on the Preamble — “I misspoke. My bad. I usually cut
and paste quotes to make sure I am 100% accurate. However, I was
using my iPad for that post. I have the Constitution on my iPad and
should have carefully proofed my post.”
I question whether our past
and current use of the military and the expenditure levels provides
for the common defense. Our military does more for the defense of the
interests of Exxon and Friends than it does for our common defense and
“freedom”.
You apparently believe that Jesus (and God by extension)
would be opposed to “promoting the general welfare” using government
resources. Society has evolved since biblical times. We don’t stone
adulterers, stubborn and rebellious sons, or blasphemers. We also
don’t stone people who attempt to convert us to other religion or
those who have left our religion to practice another religion. We
don’t stone people who curse the “king”. (If we did, there would be
far fewer Republicans.) We don’t stone medium and wizards. We don’t
stone people for breaking the Sabbath. You get my drift?
Jesus
didn’t address the role of government in serving the public because
that wasn’t the role of government in Ancient Palestine. They were an
occupied province of the Roman Empire.

Denniswingo

Our current military spending as a proportion of the federal budget
equals the lowest of the last 125 years, so that is not the
problem.

You apparently are still wrapped up in your definition, equating
promoting with providing. I said no such thing about Jesus/God.

Jesus absolutely addressed the subject in telling us to trust him,
and God for your supply, not government…

This is what he actually said…

Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye
shall eat; nor yet for your body,what ye shall put on. 23For the life
is more than the food, and the body than the raiment. 24Consider the
ravens, that they sow not,neither reap; which have no store-chamber
nor barn; and God feedeth them: of how much more value are ye than the
birds! 25Andwhich of you by being anxious can add a cubit unto the
measure of his life? 26If then ye are not able to do even that which
is least,why are ye anxious concerning the rest? 27Consider the
lilies, how they grow: they toil not, neither do they spin; yet I say
unto you,Even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of
these. 28But if God doth so clothe the grass in the field, which
to-day is,and tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more shall he
clothe you, O ye of little faith? 29And seek not ye what ye shall eat,
andwhat ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. 30For all
these things do the nations of the world seek after: but your
Fatherknoweth that ye have need of these things. 31Yet seek ye his
kingdom, and these things shall be added unto you. 32Fear not,
littleflock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the
kingdom.

Denniswingo

As I stated before (reply got lost again), our military
expenditures are at a historic low, the lowest as a proportion of our
total budget or GDP in over a century. Thanks to fracking, that
liberals have fought tooth and nail, we import less oil from the
middle east than at any time in half a century. If we were to spend
more on R&D for fusion (promoting the general welfare), rather
than the trillions we waste on many domestic programs, we would not
have to worry about the middle east at all.

While you say you misspoke, you use the term “promote the general
welfare” as if it were “provide, the general welfare” yet again. It
is an absolute fact that at every instance Jesus, and God asked us to
turn to him for help, support, and supply. To have anything in the
bible related to government doing that is redundant and stupid.

This is the subject here. Whether or not government should be
doing these things is a political debate. What this site and this
article attempts to do is to metaphorically bludgeon Christians for
not supporting the state welfare system. Our founding fathers well
knew that it is impossible for the state to provide the general
welfare, and though you claim you misspoke, you still use the term
promote as if it were provide. As an American and as a Christian I do
not support this as it is destructive to the nation and to the body
politic.

smb11

“We The People” have not and do not look to the bible for
instructions on how to run a government. The Constitution is our
source document for the establishment of our government, not the
bible.

Denniswingo

That is funny in that you misstated the Preamble to that document
in a manner that conforms to your belief system.

smb11

I misspoke. My bad. I usually cut and paste quotes to make sure
I am 100% accurate. However, I was using my iPad for that post. I
have the Constitution on my iPad and should have carefully proofed my
post.

You would be surprised to know that I think that Government should
be providing short-term jobs instead of welfare. The WPA, CCC, and
AmeriCorps are better methods for providing support than welfare
checks. I also believe that there should be no Personal Exemption or
deductions for dependents.

The social safety net, as imperfect as it is, does promote the
general welfare. One reason Ancient Rome provided welfare to Plebian
Roman citizens was to avoid food riots. Not having food riots is a
good thing. In an age of widespread international travel, disease is
easily spread in a matter of days. Providing Universal Healthcare
would mean a healthier population which would be better able to
withstand exposure to communicable diseases. It would also mean that
people would seek care earlier in the disease process, improving
outcomes and reducing costs.

You stated in an earlier post that “The Roman government had the
dole at the time, taken from taxes imposed on the provinces. Thus
this form of welfare was known and widely practiced at the time.”
When I questioned this, you said your use of “widely” was
“contextual”. That is something of a dodge. Something practiced in
Rome, but not in Palestine or Britain and points in-between, cannot be
considered “known and widely practiced at the
time”.

Denniswingo

You may be surprised but I am not against some forms of government
supported job creation but lets be clear about the differences.

The Pacific Railway act of 1862 created tens of thousands of jobs
as the national railway was built across the nation. It led to
millions of jobs as the benefits of the railroad were realized.

The Panama Canal created tens of thousands jobs to create a
waterway between the Atlantic and Pacific and continues to this day to
create millions of jobs around the world as commerce is made more
efficient.

Hoover dam created tens of thousands of jobs in the near term and
benefits for tens of millions today.

The National Highway act of 1926 and the Interstate and Defense
Highway Act of 1956 created hundreds of thousands of jobs in the
construction of the roads and tens of millions of jobs and trillions
of dollars in economic benefits each year today.

(by the way each and every one of these programs were put into
place by Republican presidents)

I do not buy into the way that government “job creation” is done
today as it is ineffective in the near term and does not create long
term benefits to the nation. Americorps is the poster child for an
ineffective way of creating jobs with no long term benefits to the
nation. The CCC did help though it was structured to be inefficient
in execution.

The projects that I enumerated above, each one of them, what
Lincoln called “Internal Improvements” are sterling examples of the
government promoting the general welfare. Today, the vast majority of
government spending is to provide that general welfare as each year we
spent $1.8 trillion dollars in direct payments to individuals. If
that money was instead invested in developing advanced infrastructure
such as fusion energy, the economic development of space, pollution
mitigation, and resource development, 99% of the problems that
liberals talk about would be solved.

I am not against the power of the government. I am against the use
of taxpayer dollars to buy the votes of the people to keep one
political party in power. I am doubly against websites such as this
one that attempt to bludgeon Christians by the inappropriate use of
sayings from the book to promote political agendas that would be
anathema to any of the writers of that book.

smb11

You are rewriting history and using scripture to do so. Tithes and
taxes were not synonymous. People in Jesus’ time paid both. You are
substituting God for government.

Denniswingo

It is government that is being placed on a pedestal here as the
substitute for God. That is a legitimate political argument but to
use scripture to claim that Christians must support government
programs for the poor or be hypocrites has zero basis in the book
itself. Thus it begins and underpins a logical fallacy.

I readily admit that the Roman government taxed, and used those
taxes for the dole. However, you do not see Jesus, or Paul when he
writes to Romans, or any other New Testament writer advocate this
method of helping the poor. Thus to attempt to use scripture to
justify this today has no basis in fact.

ladyvader

How about the simple fact our Government isn’t based off God. It’s
not replacing God or any of that nonsense.

Guess you’re forgetting this. Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them,
“Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And
they were amazed at him

Lee
McHaney

A non sequitur. Our government is not some foreign oppressor, or
conquering government. So, you are comparing apples to oranges
here.

smb11

This website does not place government in the place of God.
Government as we know it today did not exist then.
There are
fundamentalist atheists, just as there are fundamentalist
Christians.
Jesus also did not place limits on the role of
government in society.

smb11

Jesus was a product of his time. Providing for the people was not a
function of government at that time. The thought of doing so was
foreign in that society.

Denniswingo

Jesus was either the son of God or a complete and utter nutter.
There is no middle ground. The entire bible front to back goes with
the theme that God is our supply, trust in God, look to him, not
government. Jesus was 100% in keeping with that theme.

You may not believe, and I could care less if you do or not, but
this entire site is a complete distortion of the biblical record.
Whatever Jesus was, he did not at any time advocate taking taxes from
the people to pay to government so that government could take care of
the poor. The parable of the Good Samaritan is quite explicit about
this point, in that it was the government officials that left the man
in the ditch for the Samaritan to save, provide money for, and
support.

smb11

In the parable of the Good Samaritan, it was a priest and a Levite
who walked passed the man in the ditch, not the government.

What is your supporting source material that welfare was widely
practiced at the time?

How do you account for Jesus’ statement “leave unto Ceasar”?

The bible is a collection of religious texts. It is not a unified
document.

Denniswingo

..What is your supporting source material that welfare was widely
practiced at the time?

_______________________________________________

Widely is contextual. Rome was the center of the world at the time
and the dole was welfare. It was for Roman citizens only…

Jesus’s quote was “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s,
and unto God the things that are God’s.” when someone gave him a coin
and asked about paying the tribute, not a tax. As you might have
figured out by watching the movie “Hunger Games”, the word tribute is
not a tax, in the sense that you and I pay taxes. It was truly a
tribute levied on non Roman citizens as an acknowledgment of the
primacy of Rome. Thus what the person who asked Jesus the question was
trying to do is to see if Jesus would refuse to acknowledge the
tribute and thus be guilty of insurrection.

To you it might be a collection of texts, but to the serious
student is is a unified document, from Genesis to Revelation, (and the
apocrypha as well). It communicates a unified theme that Jesus
amplifies.

1. God is in control.
2. God can be trusted, even and especially
when what is before you seems otherwise.
3. Be excellent to one
another.

smb11

A serious student of scripture (in the scholastic sense) knows that
it is a collection of separate documents written over millennia. The
letters of Paul were not even all written by Paul! There were Gospels
and religous texts that didn’t make it into the Canon. Seeing the
Bible as a unified document is a belief, not a fact.

To consider yourself and those who share your beliefs as being
serious students and those who believe differently are not is
arrogance worthy of the Pharisees.

Yes, in the Roman Empire, welfare was for the Roman plebians.
Therefore, it was not “widely practiced”, as you stated. It was
limited.

Re “render unto Caesar”. The King James Version calls it a
tribute. The New international Version and the New Living Translation
are among the bibles that call it a tax. The New American Standard
Bible calls it a poll tax.

No, I haven’t seen the Hunger Games and I wouldn’t use it as source
material. Since I don’t read ancient languages, I would consult
multiple translations of the Bible, commentaries, and the writings of
biblical scholars.

Denniswingo

If you study the subject and look up the definition, it is a poll
tax (tribute) exacted from non Romans. If you read Mark chapter 12
the context is clear.

and you dodged the whole error of yours regarding the
constitution.

smb11

So, do you believe that the New International Version and the New
Living Translation are lying?

TimO22

Jesus did not care about government at all. Jesus cared about human
beings. So the size of government is meaningless to people following Jesus,
but caring for fellow human beings should mean something to actual
Christians.

Conservatives that conflate the size of government with Christianity are
not following the New Testament. It would be difficult to have a government
more expansive than the Roman Empire, and Jesus mostly ignored
it.

TimO22

nowhere in the new testament does it say government can not be the means to
help others. using tax dollars to provide for the basic needs of people is a
perfectly legitimate way of doing what Jesus asked. IMO, that ‘no government’
view is just a way of being miserly, as the government can spread the
assistance more effectively than small groups of people.

PaulOnBooks

You don’t mean that there are contradictions in the Bible??? Gasp, how will
I live my life?

Jethro Bodien

you sir are a moron…

Edward Strulky

Ok, name calling, the last bastion of the un-educated. If you like I will
play along, purely for your benefit. I’ll give you one more and then it’s my
turn ok?

A-a-a-a-a-and….. Go!

Jethro Bodien

” I will pray for your salvation brother” Blow me.

paul fredine

i agree with you. those who feel they have a duty to pray for you often
times are the ones who need prayer the most.

smb11

Michael,

Do you meet Jesus’ standards?

Mark 12:41-44

And He sat down opposite the treasury, and began observing how the people
were putting money into the treasury; and many rich people were putting in
large sums
…A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which
amount to a cent. Calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, “Truly I say
to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury;
for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in
all she owned, all she had to live on.”

Luke:11:42

“But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind
of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God; but these are
the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

Oh, and by the way, Obama is not considered the second coming on the left.
We just don’t see him as devil spawn, the way the right seems to
do.

smb11

1) In Jesus’ time, government wasn’t set up to help the poor, therefore,
Jesus wouldn’t think of it. Palestine was occupied by the Roman Empire. King
Herod was basically a collaborator with the Romans.
2) If there was a
living wage job for every person, then we could label everyone who doesn’t
have a job as being lazy and choosing to live on government benefits. Since
we don’t have living wage jobs for every person who needs one, society either
needs to step in or face America becoming a third world country where we will
see people near starvation on the streets.
3) If being taxed for social
needs is “theft”, then so is my being taxed at a higher rate, being single and
childless, than someone with a family is also theft. Being forced to support
schools is theft. Being forced to financially support military acquisitions
and actions I think are wrong is theft. Being forced to support corporate
welfare is theft.
4) The need for social services is greater than any
church is able or willing to provide.

Edward Strulky

I’d like to make a couple of points here. I’ve heard much of this before
and it’s still wrong. Doesn’t matter how much, how often or how loudly you say
it.

First and foremost, Jesus said to help and care for the poor. He did not
say to have the government do it.

Many churches have Food Pantries to provide food for the poor. They will
have clothing drives and offer many services to help the poor. We are all
welcome to give generously to charities that help those left fortunate and we
can buy or make a meal for the homeless guy on the park bench.

While it is good to have a safety net as a last resort from the government,
it should be just that, a last resort for the short term.

You get no compassion points if the funds to help the poor are coming from
someone else. To raise taxes is to forcibly take money from people, literally
at gun point (try not paying your taxes) just to give the money to someone you
feel needs it more is not charity. It is theft.

You are doing no one any favors if living on government benefits is a
viable career choice. Please see 2 Thessalonians 3:7-13

“For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not
idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for
it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we
would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have
the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to
imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one
who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy;
they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus
Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers
and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.”

Luke 12:48 is a verse that is part of one of Jesus’ parables. It’s much
clearer with the verse before it:

“47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does
not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one
who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few
blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from
the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

As you can see it’s a far cry from the wealth distribution that the article
infers.

smb11

I would like to make a few points in response to your post.
1) In
Jesus’ time, government wasn’t set up to help the poor, therefore, Jesus
wouldn’t think of it. Palestine was occupied by the Roman Empire. King
Herod was basically a collaborator with the Romans.
2) If there was a
living wage job for every person, then we could label everyone who doesn’t
have a job as being lazy and choosing to live on government benefits. Since
we don’t have living wage jobs for every person who needs one, society
either needs to step in or face America becoming a third world country where
we will see people near starvation on the streets.
3) If being taxed for
social needs is “theft”, then so is my being taxed at a higher rate, being
single and childless, than someone with a family is also theft. Being
forced to support schools is theft. Being forced to financially support
military acquisitions and actions I think are wrong is theft. Being forced
to support corporate welfare is theft.
4) The need for social services
is greater than any church is able or willing to
provide.

Jethro Bodien

Oh, but I thought this was a “Christian” nation.

Edward Strulky

Christian nation? No. Never was. Founded on Christian principles, yes.
Big difference.

Jethro Bodien

We are already experiencing wealth re-distribution (i think that’s what
you meant) all the wealth to the wealthy.

Edward Strulky

Yes we have wealth redistribution already. We are currently spending
$1.8 trillion in transfer payments to individuals. This is money that
someone earned and is getting payed out to someone who didn’t. That makes
the “wealth to the wealthy” look like peanuts.

smb11

Some do still believe in predestination. Others believe so strongly in
“justification by grace through faith” that how they live their life makes no
difference.
Frankly, as a follower of Jesus’ teachings, I prefer a decent
atheist who feeds the poor and fights for social justice than a Christian who
exploits people and the environment.

J. Fischer

Those verses look pretty clear to me: treat people decently, and don’t make
a big show of piety.

I don’t see any hatred of Christianity in this article. If you’ve been
paying attention to the news, you know that the GOP/TP violate every single
one of those quotes with the laws they pass and their public squalling about
how saved and religious they are. Those hypocrites are the ones making
Christians look bad.

paul fredine

i’m sure hooper, susie and brad will read your reply as “YOU PEOPLE (as
in liberals) HATE CHRISTIANS AND ALL FREEDOM LOVING AMERICANS!!!” i’m sure
they’ll weigh in shortly. if there’s one thing you can rely on it’s their
regularly scheduled doses of idiocy.

Bob Valerius

KMC528 is a made up story. No preacher has ever said we get a “get out of
hell” card. Absolute crap.

smb11

Hi, Bob.
I was raised Lutheran (and NOT Missouri Synod). This is not
a researched response. I am working off what we were taught in confirmation
class and sermons I remember. While the words “get out of hell free card”
was not used, it was taught that what you believed is what got you into
heaven. It was also taught that a sinful person who believed would get into
heaven while a good person who worked for the benefit of others would
not.
I remember one sermon on being saved by faith not works. It
included a section on deathbed conversions. He said that if we witnessed a
fatal accident, if the person dying wanted to convert at the scene of the
accident, we were to baptize the person, even if radiator fluid was the only
water present and we are laymen.

Bob Valerius

It is a condition of the heart, he was surely right on that. The
objection I have is that we can live a life of sin and count on a deathbed
confession to save us. It ain’t happenin

agape smb

bob

smb11

My personal choice is to follow Jesus’ teachings on how we treat
others and follow the example of how he lived his life. The theology
end of things, such as conditions for salvation, I don’t focus on much.
The way I see it, focusing on salvation is looking for “the reward” for
believing the right things. I am following Jesus’ teachings without any
expectation of a reward.

Learning how to give without any expectation of a return has been a
big step in my spiritual journey. I never understood how Jesus could
say “For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:30) I
had an epiphany this winter. There was a situation where I was able to
give an item I was using to a homeless person that was exactly what was
needed at that moment and I had no attachment to what I gave away. At
that moment, I felt lighter. I experienced the teaching in Matthew
11:30.

ladyvader

Why couldn’t you treat others respectfully without leaning on
Jesus?

Why do you need to follow something a bunch of men wrote over 2000
years go in order to be a good person? Why can’t you be that way
without religion?

smb11

I expect I would be the same person without religion.
Believing
is a choice. I find value in Jesus’ teaching. I find value in the
community in my church. I also find value in the teachings of other
religious traditions. I am not interested in church hierarchy. I am
not interested in church politics.

Our life experience is what forms who we are. Learning from people
and learning from reading influences who we become. The example
provided by my father had a strong impact on me. What I read has an
impact.

It is part of my life journey. Why do you feel the need to deny me
that part of my life?

J. Fischer

Then more than a few ministers aren’t making it clear to their
flocks.

In any case, a God who would condemn decent people to Hell for not
following a specific form of Christianity is not a God worthy of
devotion. That’s a God of fear and arbitrary punishment.

paul
fredine

can i get an amen??

Jethro Bodien

So saith Bob.

KMC528

Regarding the last one, an ultra-Christian friend refused to help me when I
had a crisis and when I called her on it, she argued that as long as she said
“Jesus died for my sins” on her deathbed, she was going straight to heaven
whether she did charity or not. I suspect she found out differently last year
when she died.

She swore up and down that she had not misunderstood, her minister had told
her that saying the magic words was a “get out of jail free” card. I later
talked to other conservative Christian friends and found their ministers had
given them the same impression.

Thanks, I’ll stick with the atheists, who DO pitch in when I ask for
help.

smb11

I am sorry you didn’t receive any support from a Christian. Those who
claim to follow Jesus’ teachings should be front and center in helping
friends or strangers in need. Unfortunately, a lot of churches teach
salvation and don’t spend much time on how Jesus lived his life and was the
servant, not the master.

TimO22

It’s the old ‘faith versus works’ discussion. The conservatives feel they
only need to ‘believe’, which obviously ignores the words of Jesus. But it
is a long entrenched divide in Christianity.

Mark Schmidt

The version of “christianity” that is adhered to by most
evangelicals/right wingers comes from the Calvinist group – the
“pre-ordained” who think, as your christian friend told you that they are
the saved or the elect and do not owe anyone anything…”If jesus died for our
sins why would we have to do good works…” They are the people who are in
love with the “rapture”, a very late idea holding that the “saved” will be
assumed bodily into heaven, leaving those remaining to deal with a long time
of suffering and trial…These people are so far removed from the ideals of
christianity they have no business using that title…

Oh, and I am a non believer who was born and raised and educated
religious…it is a force for evil.

Pingback: 10 Founding Fathers’ Quotes to Make Conservatives’
Heads Explode | Worldwide Business Expansion()

Rick

It’s so incredibly easy to search the bible for quotes to support an agenda
of attacking it with out actually studying what is being read. Its an
entirely other thing to study the context of these selected passages both
culturally and grammatically (the bible wasn’t written in english, ie KJV) to
extract their purpose and the messages that they are communicating to both the
people they are directly addressed to and the relevance they have to us today.
Its clear that the later has not been done.

I agree with many of the comments already on here about the lack of true
journalism in collecting and presenting facts. This is nothing more than
another political and religious smear campaign seeking to further drive the
wedge of division between people and their right to believe what they believe.

You don’t believe in conservative values? fine. your not a christian? fine.
Go about your business. Why don’t you write about the things you DO understand
instead of the things you don’t. Lumping the behavior of some into an all
inclusive category seems a bit naive and amateur. If you are going to pull out
points of contingence against christianity, conservatives, the bible or its
followers be sure to also point to all of the things that a judeo-christian
world view has contributed to american society and the world as well. For
example the freedom you have to write your uneducated world-view in an article
online for the world to perceive as fact when its actually not based in any
true merit. Thank you Thomas Jefferson for the declaration of independence
that allows this sort of entitled mockery of your believe in God and biblical
values; the very thing that inspired you to write such an incredible
document.

This article seeks to make people feel stupid for believing in something
that doesn’t make sense to other people. Much like the very thing she is
condemning the conservatives for doing. It seeks to isolate and condemn a
group of folks that hold to a set of values that are clearly different than
the writer’s values and judge them accordingly for doing so. Good thing no one
is trying to shut her up or make her opinion illegal, they might be in danger
of committing a hate crime.

http://elisabethparker.com Elisabeth Parker

The point of this article isn’t to criticize people for being Christian,
it’s to criticize people who claim to be Christian but who don’t follow any
of Jesus Christ’s teachings. Jesus Christ specifically taught that His
coming meant that God was establishing a new covenant.Yet conservatives
remain obsessed with the harsh and discriminatory Old testament rules. And
Jesus clearly demanded love, peace, tolerance, and caring for children, the
sick, the poor, the old, the weak, and the powerless. The teachings of Jesus
Christ are the polar opposite of what conservatives are all about. They need
to find something else to call themselves, because, by definition,
conservatives are NOT Christians.

Matt

Elisabeth, Jesus Christ doesn’t demand anything of us, but he EXPECTS a
great deal. Left wing politics take away my CHOICE to love and care for my
neighbor and DEMANDS that I pay for their personal choices through
government policies funded by my tax dollars. That robs me of my Christian
duty. I don’t like being robbed. By anyone. Being stripped of my agency to
choose to be a good person was the plan of Satan, and that is a plan that
I believe all of us rejected.

The point of the article absolutely is to criticize and belittle, and
it’s painfully obvious you know little of what you speak. For instance, in
point 11 you quote Matthew 19:24 yet you fail to mention Matthew 6 in
totality and specifically Matthew 6:32

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you.”.

What if after seeking the kingdom of God first, He decides that
material wealth is one of the many things that He adds unto me? Does being
a good Christian guarantee material wealth? Of course not. Does being
filthy rich make me a bad Christian? Well that would be equally silly.

But maybe, just maybe, if I am blessed with material wealth…. that I
went out an EARNED by the sweat of my own brow because of that silly
commandment to be fruitful and whatnot… perhaps He knows I will continue
to use that wealth to benefit my fellow man, and imagine all that without
government putting their hand forcibly into my wallet. Try giving the
parable of the two talents a read and see what you make of how our Savior
felt about the servant that failed to produce an increase. I don’t expect
you to see beyond the physical money aspect of the parable, but parables
are like onions, they have layers. Peel back a few and see what you
find.

Continuing on with point 11, do you even know what the Citizen’s United
ruling was about? I know you went to all the trouble of posting the
wikipedia entry and all and it IS a lengthy read, but you could have
scrolled your educated self down to the majority opinion section and take
a gander at this:

“The Court’s ruling effectively freed corporations and unions to spend
money both on “electioneering communications” and to directly advocate for
the election or defeat of candidates (although not to contribute directly
to candidates or political parties).”

Wow. You try to use Citizen’s United to justify, if I can even follow
your logic correctly, How Jesus Christ feels about income equality??
Citizen’s United has nothing to do with how Jesus Christ “feels” about
anything. What it did do (for good or for bad) was allow Apple as a
corporation to donate one million dollars to fight Proposition 8. It has
nothing to do whatsoever with raising or lowering the minimum wage. Which
CEO’s are you specifically referring to? You do realize that the CEO is
beholden to the corporations BOD, which likely represents a wide mixture
of religious and political affiliations, and that the BOD is ultimately
responsible to shareholders. At the end of the day, shareholders demanding
a return on their investment (profits), NOT republicans (or democrats –
but maybe tea partiers, I don’t personally get those folks) drives
corporations to lobby against raising the minimum wage. And they should. I
don’t want to pay $8.95 for a $6 dollar burger.

You may also want to google “primary vs secondary source of
information” or give this link a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_a_tertiary_source

At least you got ONE right. In your bio you identify yourself as a
dilettante – “a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the
arts, without real commitment or knowledge.”. Boy how I wish I could
underline that last part.

SleepsWithCats

“Jesus Christ doesn’t demand anything of us, but he EXPECTS a great
deal. Left wing politics take away my CHOICE to love and care for my
neighbor and DEMANDS that I pay for their personal choices through
government policies funded by my tax dollars.”

Arrant sophistry, Matt. Jesus COMMANDS you to do many things: http://www.trusting-in-jesus.com/Commandments-of-Jesus.html

But let’s get to the core of your argument: you don’t want your
CHOICE to be taken away. You want to be able to NOT love and NOT care
for your neighbor, if YOU decide, in YOUR wisdom, that they don’t
deserve YOUR love or YOUR care.

That’s really what you want. You want to be able to continue ignoring
Jesus, which is easy, since he is long dead. If your church decides to
love and care for your neighbor, you can always leave your church, can’t
you? You can always tell yourself that they are sinners, that they
aren’t following Jesus’ commandments, that you shouldn’t abide by their
rules. It’s not so easy to ignore your government, is it? You would have
to renounce your citizenship and move to some more barbaric country that
turned its back on its poor and suffering citizens.

Admit it. That’s what really rankles you: not being able to ignore
Jesus’ commandments.

Bob K

The fact that some people here are attacking your 100% accurate
evaluation only tells me that a lot of people here are phony Christians.
Atheists are generally a far more spiritual lot than those disagreeing
with your assessment.

I didn’t notice a single logical or rational comment disagreeing with
you, You hit it out of the park.

And for the moronic set here, it’s the government’s sworn duty to
promote the general welfare, which is why sometimes you are “forced to do
things you don’t want to do” which is usually supporting the general
welfare, Yes, I realize you conservatives believe the world revolves
around you, but what is really happening is you’re just soulless
beasts.

Darrell Lockhart

Dear young child, you have bitten off more than you can chew. Go do
about 40 years of Bible study and then maybe you can make some points that
mean something. My ancestors have studied the Bible for thousands of years
and still have not figured it all out. Humble yourself and realize there
is much to learn. It is always a sticky situation when one mixes politics
and religion. Please, I beg you, find someone older and wiser to learn
from. Many of the points you make about conservatives are factually
incorrect. You are entitled to your opinions but not your own facts. The
Bible talks about money more than just about any other subject. Nowhere
does it say to give everybody whatever they need or want with no limit.
And it certainly does not instruct the government to take from one person
by force and give to another. Here is a nice verse to ponder: Render unto
Ceasar what is his and unto God what is God’s. Or maybe,” If you do not
work, you do not eat”. Or maybe you reap what you sow. Or give a man a
fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a
lifetime. Conservatives are all about teaching how to fish. It is a
verifiable fact that conservative Republicans give more to charity than
Democrats. Also, how much blood of unborn innocent children is on the
hands of liberal Democrats. Abortion is murder of the most helpless. They
do feel pain while being stabbed in the back of the head. Is there
anything more anti-Christ than that?

http://twitter.com/albertodesignz Albert
Vargas (@albertodesignz)

“Conservatives are all about teaching how to fish” HA!

If this were true then so-called conservatives would be all about
funding for education to TEACH poor people skills. They would be adamant
that corporate policies ENABLE the working poor to grow and prosper.
The right ( I refuse to single only conservatives) continue to espouse
policies that DESTROY LIVES. Lives of those MOST vulnerable in our
society. Let’s take your philosophy to it’s logical conclusion – no
help, no money, no homes, no healthcare for MILLIONS of people
-including children. What do you think will happen? Indeed you do reap
what you sow…

You say that abortion is murder (i agree) but it is NOT YOUR CHOICE.
GOD IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN JUDGE. He has given us CHOICE.God, will
judge that person and it is between God and that person.

AATTP

Click to read: Teach a Man to Fish: The Republican
Version

Lizanne

I’m not a conservative and I found this article offensive. This isn’t
journalism, it’s an attack on a group of political beliefs. The data
presented in the attack is biased and untrue. This is
pathetic.

paul fredine

i really want to know what is so ‘offensive’ about posting quotes from
the bible attributed to jesus, quotes that so-called christians tend to
gloss over or outrightly ignore in order to promote some hateful very
unchristian-like agenda. you want to say something hateful which goes
totally against the teachings of the man you claim to follow as an example,
be prepared to get called out as a hypocrite or liar.

Darrell Lockhart

The scriptures are taken out of context in order to support a
preconceived notion. Most of what Jesus said is of a spiritual and eternal
nature. Love your neighbor. Okay, but what is the best way to do that. We
know what works and what does not. Liberal social policies are a disaster
yet democrats continue to seek endless amounts of money for them. Tax and
spend only serves politicians and provides temporary relief to the needy
which ultimately enslaves them. I can best help my neighbor by offering
him an education and training so he can help himself. By keeping taxes low
for everyone the money stays in the peoples’ hands. When we send a dollar
to Washington, only about 20 cents actually goes where it is supposed to.
Not a very good investment. By the way Jesus drove out the money changers
because they were in the TEMPLE. God is not against money, who do you
think created gold? I never got a job from a poor person. Solomon was the
richest man who ever lived. But he found out that it did not bring him
happiness. Guess what neither do endless handouts.If one calls himself a
Christian all that means is he believes what the Bible says, he accepts
forgiveness of his sins and acknowledges the only way to live out the
scriptures is by daily denying himself and admitting he can do nothing
with out God. There are no perfect Christians. They still sin. They still
struggle. The difference is God has made their spirit perfect by washing
it with the pure blood of Jesus.

http://rjowles.wordpress.com Future Saint R. Joseph

1 John is not a “Jesus Quote” — The Epistle of John is not the Gospel of
John.

Erica

After reading all the comments on this article, I can’t help but wonder,
why people can’t just accept each other? I’m not saying we all have to agree
with each other, but why is it so hard to just let everyone live their lives
without others forcing their doctrines, or religion in general, on them?
There’s a time and place for (almost) everything, but government is not a
place for religion. Clearly lawmakers forgot about the separation of church
and state.

I know I’m pretty much just asking for a shit storm by even saying this,
but, in a sense, homosexuality is unnatural. For all species, its in their
nature to reproduce to insure the species’ survival and to pass on their
genes. I don’t mean that those that can’t reproduce aren’t natural, but it is
a bodily flaw, and, as far as I am aware, humans are the only species that
actively choose whether or not to have children. Not that there is anything
wrong with any of that, of course.

Ceri Cat

Why can’t they? Well consider this, I used to be an operator for a chat
system. We had two Greek users, both were Greek Orthodox, now this is one of
the older Christian sects if you’re not aware. They were treated with
respect and left alone by other users with regards to their religion and
there is a pretty general rule for such places that religion and politics
are subjects that are not to be broached to avoid offence (and ABS had that
in the rules which were posted to each person on entering so it was well
known).
In the end I wound up banning the entire IP ranges assigned to
Greece to keep them out after frequent warnings, IP and nick bans (which
they dodged both of thanks to the way IP pools work).
Their offence?
Constantly telling people they were going to hell if they weren’t Greek
Orthodox and trying to get people to convert. I wish I kept logs that old so
I could show the dozen or more conversations I had with them trying to get
them to stop proselytizing to people, they were fine until that
happened.
Now I’ve never known an atheist to try to get you to abandon
your religion, to stop believing in God, but those particular Greeks are a
notable example of why Christianity is not popular with a lot of people,
especially since Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are merely different sects
of Christianity and I’ve turned down a copy of watchtower in the last month.
Let’s add the fact the LGBT community don’t want straights to get gay
marriages, they just want to have the right to be married recognised and
permitted as what it is a basic human right as determined many times in the
supreme courts.

I’ll end on this note. The sign of a good and just law is that it defends
the rights of the people from being abused. Any law which abridges the
rights of a group in favour of another group is not a good nor a just
law.

Jess

There are quite a few animals that practice homosexual behavior. But,
yes, live and let live.
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=0xpi2NI-Dz4C&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=homosexual+behavior+in+animals&ots=YY063jpgg_&sig=cMH-uwImHKGvSfHzPmLo1D7-PMk#v=onepage&q=homosexual%20behavior%20in%20animals&f=false

Erica

There are a lot, actually. The ‘humans-only’ part was exclusively about
the choice to reproduce.

Sorry if that sounded rude.

Nestor

Great bible verses; incredibly bad commentary. It’s not a
liberal/conservative issue but one of sin and hard hearts. Both parties make
promises to help others and then go on to help themselves. We cannot depend
on polititians to make things better, we must come to Jesus.

David

I don’t think this piece is about either of the parties but individuals
and how they vie the policies.

Levin Tull

Amen.

Justin

This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Good
grief.

Maximus

Hey dumbass. We ARE still in Afghanistan and Iraq. Both Liberals and
Conservatives are equally good at being sinners and both are hypocrates,
judgmental and money hungry.

Bob Valerius

I don’t think anyone could write a dumber article if he tried. Just
horrible theology.

agape

bob

https://www.facebook.com/wildwelshwoman Carmen

I couldn’t agree more, Bob!

Sam

Why is it poor theology Bob? Because it exposes your hypocrisy? Even
you cannot claim that Jesus didn’t say the things attributed to Him in the
article.

http://gravatar.com/gjuanito gjuanito

What’s the matter Bob? Since when are quotes “theology?” You prefer
your self-serving theology of course.

Rick

its poor theology because the quotes she is using are sound bites that
are contrived to tell a story and promote an agenda that the writer is
trying to communicate.

There is no context, there is no historicity, and certainly no
underlying education in the bible to actually support what she is claiming
these verses are actually saying. Bob probably understands this and hasn’t
dignified the last two responses with answers because “fools despise
wisdom”, but the truth remains.

Bob Valerius

Exactly, Rick. They will continue to pervert the Gospel of Christ.
It’s what they do.

smb11

Rick,

This is an opinion piece. This is the bloggers views and
experience.

How much historicity and context are anti-abortion and
anti-homosexual Christians demonstrating when they claim their beliefs
and actions are biblically based? How is Joel Osteen’s Prosperity
Theology reflective of Jesus’ teachings and
behaviors?

Moops50

Hey, news flash…we ARE still on Afghanistan. Just FYI from a friendly
military member…

Ben

Oh, this is one of those articles that show how tolerant the author is by
being intolerant of Christians.

Awesomesauce.

paul fredine

and you’re one of those so-called christians who get their knickers in a
twist when it’s pointed out what hypocrites they are.

https://www.facebook.com/edward.j.belanger Raji
the Green Witch

He is NOT being inolerant of the christians. He is being intolerant of
those who POSE as Christians but in truth behave as ANTI-Christians. A WORLD
of difference. And You can cont ME in on that kind of intolerance as well.
It is about TIME that the TRUE Christians stood UP for those words of Jesus
and actually DID the right thing.

Hooper

Which is why this whole tolerance thing is one of Dante’s 7 circles of
hell. Once you claim you’re the tolerant one, you have a big bag of
garbage to tolerate. Because if you don’t, your tolerance is only
tolerance masquerading as intolerance, which makes your tolerance
intolerance so now you have to again pose as being tolerant and … where
was I again?

Tolerance is not the ideal that liberals make it out to be. I would
much rather stand for truth, and goodness, and benevolence… but that’s
me.

AATTP

The only thing liberals are intolerant of is blatant INTOLERANCE. In
other words, I don’t think we ever care what anyone does as long as it
doesn’t hurt anyone else or take their rights away.

The only time we care if people have guns is if they aren’t mentally
capable of handling them responsibly and infringe on OUR rights to be
SAFE.
The only time we care if people are religious is when they try
and use their religion to take rights from others.
The only time we
care if people are racist or homophobic is when they use those views to
deny rights or services to others.

It’s really not that hard to understand.

Hooper

That would be fine if that were the way it is. Unfortunately, it’s
not. The first problem is that, according to liberals, “rights” is
everything under the sun. I asked one time, and got no answer, is what
isn’t a right in Western culture? Perhaps you have an answer.

As far as this thread goes, you apparently do care, a great deal.
Just who are these people harming? What right of yours are they
infringing upon?

Finally, the way these “rights” are implemented invariably involve
YOU telling someone else how to behave.

Janessa

This comment so perfectly reflects what I believe being democratic
is about. Thank you.

smb11

Hooper,

I have followed your posts. I don’t seem much truth, goodness and
benevolence in your writing. We all have beams in our eyes. From your
posts, you don’t seem to see beyond yours.

Steve

Jesus Christ told us what to do but gave us FREE WILL, to do or not to do.
The Government using force to make us do things is TYRANNY.

AATTP

LOLOL!

http://chronicle.com/article/Jerry-A-Coyne/131165/

paul fredine

jesus gave us free will? was that before or after he wrote the
constitution?

JLC

Hahahahahahahaha

Daisy

Exactly why you guys need to get out of women’s uteruses. Stop talking
out one side of your mouth and doing the opposite when it suits
you.

Anon E Mouse

None of us are without sin. (sorry for this little stone
:P)

http://Facebook Andrus

The teachings of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament are crystal clear
that all human beings are commanded to love their neighbor, to care for the
poor, the needy, the sick, the afflicted, without judging them. The position
of the Christian right seems to be that none of us should be forced to help
others – rather, it must be done voluntarily. Collecting taxes that fund
government programs that seek to address these issues is “force,” they say,
and such tyranny should therefore be resisted. The problem with this
viewpoint is simply this. We all have a choice as to whether we pay our
taxes. If we don’t, eventually the IRS will swoop down and seize assets,
freeze bank accounts, and otherwise engage in collection activities. On the
other hand, if believing Christians are correct, those who do not follow
Jesus’ teachings to help the poor “voluntarily” will suffer eternal
consequences, whether it be the horrors described in Dante’s Inferno, or some
other less graphic punishment in an after life. In both cases, there are
consequences for failing to comply, whether it’s with the tax code or the
rather clear requirements laid down in the Bible for attaining some heavenly
reward. The only way one can make this distinction, that taxes are coercion
but Jesus’ commandments are not, is if one does not really believe in some
kind of eternal punishment. It’s not a question of motive. You can pay taxes
because you want to or because you have to, and you can try to follow Jesus’
teachings because you want to or because you have to do it to get into
“heaven” and avoid “hell,” but it’s ridiculous to insist that taxes are forced
on you, but “God’s commandments” are not.
The only question that has
any meaning in this context is how we as a society can best help those in
need. To be sure, all of us want our tax dollars to be spent wisely. We
don’t want to perpetuate dependency. But the notion that gutting government
programs intended to help people who are sick, or poor, or hungry is
consistent with what Jesus taught is fallacious and hypocritical. I think
that is the main point of this article. And it’s correct.

Joyfulsong

Once our taxes are paid they ate an obligation within the constitution
which then transfers the money from our hands to the Government. Jesus said
‘ render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and to God that which us God”
paying taxes is ordered then by Jesus. What do you think Jesus would prefer
those taxes we pay be used for war or feeding and caring fur our societies
less fortunate ? Christ also said “any man who died not provide it worse
than an infidel, S God will rightfully judge those who deliberately steal
from the coffers. Churches should be take the lead in giving but because
they are busy building huge monumental buildings and paying huge salaries
they invest in these things rather than helping and caring for the needy!
Number nine speaks perfectly to those who claim to follow Christ. HE called
them Vipers and whitewashed tombs because they were perfect law keepers yet
they knew not the ways if the Father, I am proud to live in a society that
cares for the less fortunate. God will judge those who take from us
fraudulently just like those who stand on the street cornets and beg Hod
knows their motives not we. We are instructed to not pass them by for they
may be an angel unaware!

Joyfulsong

Sorry about all the mistakes typing on phone and fingers hit wrong
keys

capitalist

I must admit that they are bad Christians. The only thing that could be
worse would be for them to be good Christians.

http://gravatar.com/professionaladventurer ndjinn

the story about the people throwing rocks wasn’t even in the bible until
the 15th century and it certainly isn’t true. I’ll go for good parable but it
didn’t happen to Jesus.

David Lewis

Heck, there wasn’t a Bible for Jesus to be in until ~30 years after his
death, and that was written by a guy who never met Jesus in the first place.
Let’s not nitpick about when stuff was added. It was ALL added awkwardly
late.

fe

Politicians don’t really believe all that religious stuff. They say they
do to pander to a very large voting block. Christians who vote for so-called
conservative politicians are fools who are easily deceived. The politicians
are laughing at Christians for being so gullible. These are not my original
thoughts. They are the thoughts of honest people who resigned from the GW
BUSH White House when they came to those conclusions. Wake up real Christians
and get the money changers out of the temple.

https://www.facebook.com/janice.pushinsky Janice
Pushinsky

This all started in the Reagan Error (opps Era) When the republicans
started their “Moral Majority ” Crap.

Hooper

I actually agree with fe, for the most part. It’s a question of voting
for the lesser of two evils.

http://666ismoney.wordpress.com 666isMONEY

“you can’t serve God and money, you will either love the one and hate the
other . . . but the Pharisees (conservatives) who loved money heard all this
and scoffed.” — Luke 16

Hooper

The next time I see a homeless person asking for money, I’ll pass along
your good wishes instead. I’m sure he’ll understand.

Michelle

Wow, criticizing a quote from your bible. Maybe you should have spent
more time in church on Easter Sunday and less time bothering people on
this site.

yourjunk

So, you see the poor like the Pharisees?

James

The biggest problem with this argument is that everything that Jesus taught
was about our personal actions. We as followers of Christ are not to judge one
another and take care of one another. We should not be forced by government to
do what is right. We should find where we can best serve man and do that
rather than have the government do it for us. Some men are better at running a
business where they can employ people rather than having to pay more taxes to
give them food stamps or other government help. As for health care if most of
us treated our body like a temple as the Bible says and eat without abusing
our body than health care would be very affordable. The biggest problem is
that groups of people are hating one another for their view points. We don’t
have to worry about another country destroying us because we are destroying
our selves through our selfishness. Don’t quote the Bible unless you yourself
are going to follow it.

https://plus.google.com/108450230143215489991 Raymond
Rossknecht

Wrong. Obviously we’re not to judge, but taking care of one another is
THE core tenet of the Christian faith. The premise of your argument “find
where we can best serve” is flawed because it ignores human nature, which
Jesus acknowledged and is one of the reasons that he preached in the first
place! If people aren’t willing to do what is right, then an exterior force
is necessary to serve the public good. In Jesus’ time, a prophet was
sufficient given the small size of communities (minus the Roman Empire). In
today’s day and age, a government formed of the people, for the people is
the best replacement. I hate when people use arguments like yours, because
they blithely ignore what would happen if tomorrow the police, fire
department, or pretty much each and every public service position based on a
centralized government were disbanded for this Libertarian “utopia.” As
Tommy Lee Jones says in Men in Black, “A person is smart. People are dumb,
panicky dangerous animals and you know it.” Counting on an unruly mob with
no organizing force to always do the right thing is insanely
stupid.

Hooper

Ah, yes… in their own liberal words. I’ll quote it for you.,” then an
exterior force is necessary to serve the public good.” Yep, that’s
liberalism. FORCE! And he doubles down…an unruly mob with no organizing
force to always do the right thing is insanely stupid. FORCE again.
Liberalism is all about FORCE.

Let’s move on to another favorite liberal trope. I’ll quote that one
for you as well. because they blithely ignore what would happen if
tomorrow the police, fire department, or pretty much each and every public
service position based on a centralized government were disbanded for this
Libertarian “utopia.”

Another strawman. Just who is advocating for what you represent here?
Do you have a citation? Or shall we just take your word for it?

And while we’re at it, (quoting again) the police, fire department, or
pretty much each and every public service position ” are not,
substantially, a part of a centralized government. I’m perfectly happy
with my local police, fire department, and even the city council. I wish
they had MORE power to do what is needed, particularly the city council.
Near where I live, the city council just voted to ban fracking, I say
hurray. Go ahead, if that’s what the citizens want. What I despise is YOUR
senator voting to ban fracking for me and my fellow citizens. If you want
to ban it then by all means. but don’t make my decision, through your
elected representative, for me. That’s centralized government. That’s
oppressive. That’s tyranny. That’s liberalism.

Alex

Do you not realize there are different definitions of the word force,
and in the way the person you are criticising used it, you are totally
out of context? So would a force of nature be forcing you to sit down
and fill out your taxes or something?? No? Then stop using that word to
suit your argument. You look dumb. An external force has nothing to do
with FORCE as you are attempting to define it.

Also, without government regulations and what not, your fire and
police departments would not work how you like them now. In fact, I’d be
surprised if your local fire department existed at all. You’d all be
grabbing your water hoses and buckets trying to save your homes – which
without government regulations would probably catch fire often because
companies sure do like to shirk as much as they can and still get their
money. And your police department would probably just be a bunch of
armed idiots bullying people into submission, because why would they
need to punish anyone for doing bad things if there’s no rules against
them?

Human nature varies. And in positions of power, there are more
examples of corrupt people than there are of people who are working for
the good of the people. Sure, our government is horrible right now, but
getting rid of it and expecting the people to do good anyways is really,
really stupid, especially in this day and age.

Bill

No, thats not liberalism….its called democracy.

Mike in TN

Yeah, Jesus would be pissed at a “Christian Government founded on His
principals” compelling taxes to be used to feed the poor, house them, clothe
them, give them health care, and the lot. That would right tick him off,
would it not, Hooper and James? That whole render until Ceasar thing wasn’t
supposed to apply to governments found in His name, after all. We know this
because he commanded us to go start Christian nations that exist in the form
of a Republic with the government only providing for warfare defense
systems. And you know, he didn’t speak out against capital punishment
either, I mean, if capital punishment is good enough for Christ it out to be
good enough for that scum in prisons he harped about visiting. Conservative
Jesus is all about the sword and vengeance and pull your own bootstraps up,
especially in Christian nations founded in His name under his principals.
Conservative Jesus says, “Hey, ya’ll rich folks, these poor people are
takers. Whatever you do, resist any tax dollars going to programs to help
them, because that would like slavery and theft and stuff. Instead teach
them to fish so they are no enslaved to handouts.” Yep, that’s what
Conservative Jesus says.

http://gravatar.com/may1972 may1972

I would be embarrassed to have written this article. So much for not
judging others. This is proof-texting – finding scripture to support your
already pre-determined point rather than allowing scripture to point you to
the truth. There are too many fallacies here to point out, but I will say that
insulting the religious beliefs of others to score political points is
juvenile and disrespectful to religion in general.

Lauri

Religious people show disrespect everyday. Pointing out the idiocy isn’t
to gain political points it’s to show how severely stupid and harmful
Christians are when they think they are using the “words of Jesus.” I put
that in quotes because, you know, it’s not real.

Hooper

Religious people show disrespect every day????? Every one shows
disrespect every day. One is left wondering what you’ve accomplished with
this specious argument.

So you’ve “show(ed) how severly stupid and harmful Christians are…”
Assuming you’re correct…. so? What does that do for you? Are you bettered
somehow by this?

Lauri

Good I’m glad you agree with me. How it makes me feel is how I feel
everyday. I don’t need to worship a giant llama in the sky to help me
see the world as a beautiful and amazing place. I also don’t need to
worship a giant llama to help make me a better person. I get to do that
all on my own like an adult. So I feel independent, happy and care
free. How are you feeling?

Hooper

Then you’re bitter and cruel for your judgementalism- and
unjustifiably. You could take the rest of you life and never say
another word to any of them and it wouldn’t change your life in one
bit. You’re not called to prosyletize to them. You live by no moral
imperative to change their minds. One is left to wonder how judging
your fellow human beings so harshly enhances your “independent, happy,
and care free.” But, then, you’re a liberal, that’s what liberals
do

Lauri

HAHAHA! Man you are seriously funny. I appreciate you making me
feel better. But seriously. READ WORLD WAR Z.

JFischer

So you would rather they quoted Leviticus and Deuteronomy – which are NOT
attributed to Jesus (unless you believe that Jesus was
God)?

James

The author never claimed to be a follower of Christ, so any criticisms
from the perspective of faith are a moot point. It’s like person B saying “I
don’t believe in the Boogeyman,” and person A saying “Your disbelief in
monsters causes me concern…”

If you have “FAITH” then whatever ANYONE says does not matter. Your faith
should guide you and show you “The Truth” no matter what anyone else says.
Otherwise, they wouldn’t call it faith.

Lauri

It’s an interesting book. So is World War Z, Harry Potter Series, anything
written by Edgar Allan Poe, Sherlock Holmes, etc.. Doesn’t mean I will base
my life on telling others how they should live their lives based on these
books. Although I would like to have an invisibility cloak . That would be
fun.

Hooper

If you are equating all of these books then that is evidence that you are
not very familiar with any of them.

Lauri

If by equating you mean calling them books then yes I am. I don’t
think you understand what books are.

Hooper

You wrote that they have the same level of “interest” as in they are
interesting books. Again, if you equate them in that way, you don’t know
them very well.

Lauri

No I got it right. Again I don’t think you know what books are.
They have words (and sometimes pictures depending on how old the
person is) written in them that tell a story or explain something.
Some are interesting and some aren’t. I think the bible is an
interesting book. There are some fun stories and some interesting
perspectives on how the world should work. World War Z and Harry
Potter have similar things. In World War Z the main message is we all
need to start preparing for the zombie apocalypse because we are not
as prepared as we think. I don’t believe there will be a zombie
apocalypse but I still thought it was an interesting read. A friend
of mine read it and she bought a bunch of zombie survival stuff. It
makes her happy so who am I to say she can’t. But if she asked me to
join in I would tell her the same thing I tell my Christian Friends –
No that’s an unbelievably dumb thing you are doing and I want none of
it. But thanks for thinking of me.

Hooper

I suggest a good book club. I’m sure there’s one in your
town.

Lauri

I’m part of one thank you. That’s where I read the very
interesting World War Z. That’s the message you should take away from
this. Read World War Z. Seriously, it’s really good. Have you read
other books besides the bible? I don’t think you have but maybe I’m
wrong.

Whitney

Hooper has clearly never read World War Z. I know exactly what you
mean, Lauri.

Lauri

Thanks Whitney!

capitalist

I think Laurie is spot on.

Lauri

Thanks Capitalist!

CC

I’m so sorry but what year is it? Does any Christian really bash someone
for not being of the same faith or belief? Seriously who cares what you want
to believe in? Why even write this article if you’re intent is to state that
someone passes judgement, yet you do it by bashing on people of this faith.
#DoubleStandard

JFischer

How about the so-called Christians of the Tea Party? Pat Robertson and
his intolerance?

How is it ‘bashing’ to quote the very book these bigots claim to revere?
Or is calling out hypocrisy unacceptable?

Hooper

Calling out hypocrisy is absolutely acceptable. Except your problem
isn’t with hypocrisy, you’re perfectly willing to live with – and even
applaud — hypocrisy on the left. Your outrage is selective. Which means
it’s politically motivated. Which means it will eventually be oppressive,
if it’s not there already.

Alex

Literally not what anyone here is talking about? And no one is saying
anything in defense of hypocrisy on the left? So why?? Are you bringing
that up??

mica harry

It would be a good idea for conservative Christians to review Ezekiel
16:48-50…..

Hooper

Done. And?

JFischer

Looks like it’s saying (in the flowery language of Ezekiel’s vision) that
God is really pissed at the Hebrews for squandering His favor and gifts to
them.

Not surprised Hooper doesn’t get it.

Lee

Happy Easter, everyone. Here’s my thought on this holiday… I wonder all the
time if there’s a god, or if we are the only hope for our species and the
planet. However, I can’t bring myself to believe that there is no God, its
just too frightening. So I will continue to believe in God and His Son Jesus
Christ for the rest of my life, I really have nothing to
lose.

Lee Roquemore

The only way for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing! “Blessed
are the peacemakers…” simply means thosewho promote peace are blessed. Rolling
over during Pearl Harbor or 911would be nothing short of insane! Yes the Iraq
war was a mistake. George Bush however is not the Pope and its not Jesus
Christ, but he tried his best to protect the country, but again yes making a
mistake.People who simply use quotes to make fun of conservatives and
Christians are absolute hypocrites themselves!

paul fredine

what’s wrong with pointing out the words of jesus some people find so
convenient to ignore?

Lauri

Rolling over is insane. Attacking a country that had nothing to do with
it just to win a war your daddy lost, that’s worse. Incorrectly quoting the
bible is how conservatives breathe.

porterlager

Include this New Testament nugget: “Sell all you have and give to the
poor.” What part of “all” do conservative Christians not understand? I know of
no conservative Christian who has ever done that. Ever. Not a single one.

Additionally (yes I know this is OT and this article is in regard to NT,
but it follows along with the NT Love Your Neighbor ethos), “The foreigner
residing among you must be treated as your native-born ….” This from the same
book (Leviticus) conservative Christians hang their hatred of gays for dear
life on. The policies conservative Christians and the GOP have against
immigrants, doesn’t matter scripturally if they are legal or not, are
diametrically opposed to this command.

Bravo for this article!

Darrell Lockhart

Perhaps He said that to point out the choice he would be making if he
followed him. Like how much he would have to sacrifice. His old life had to
be left behind. Get it? Symbolism. Greatest author of all time,
Jesus!

Darrell Lockhart

Here is what we stand for. Let the games begin:http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Ephi1:16

This misinterpretation of the bible is so wrong. So sad that is funny. If
you are going to quote the bible, read past that verse and also before the
verse to get a better understanding. Also, reading a different translation
will help you.

Sanity Rules

Yes, that’s right just find a translation that fits with your twisted
view of the world. All religious texts were written by men who all had their
own reasons for writing them. No God had any hand in any of
them.

Darrell Lockhart

The case for a creator. That is the title of a book that is filled
cover to cover with in-depth SCIENTIFIC evidence that points to the
existence of a Creator. I challenge you, no, I double dog dare you to read
it. You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth. YOU meaning all those
like you who have ever lived who think the same way.

http://twitter.com/plasmaBn plasmaborne4rel (@plasmaBn)

Science has proven birds do in fact store things away. The bible is a book
of superstitions fables that when it does kind of reflect reality it is an
accident!

Pat Marsh

They believe what they are told. They don’t read the Bible for themselves.
Why should they when there is a ‘pastor’ to let them know all they NEED to
know!

JFischer

Do you eat pork or shellfish, and wear mixed fibers? Do you go anywhere
besides church on the Sabbath? Do you still associate with people who’ve
divorced their spouses?

If the answer to those questions is ‘Yes’, then you are violating the Old
Testament law that you so selectively quote about gays.

Did you know that some of those laws are simply prohibitions against
doing what non-Hebrews do? The Hebrew leaders were keeping their people
distinct from the other people around them. ‘Abomination’ was the word used
by the Greek translators for the Hebrew term that basically meant, ‘what
foreigners do.’

Kevin

Unless you’re a Jew, the Old Testament doesn’t apply. Most of us are
covered under the New Testament.

paul fredine

the old testament doesn’t apply? then why all the conservative
hoopla over posting the 10 commandments in public buildings? so we can
just ignore them from now on because they aren’t new testament?
putz.

sphin gormon

Another writer who ignores truth. Truth is not relative. The sky is blue.
Homosexuality is against nature. Christians can be conservative as Christ
was.

BILL

Conservative Christianity is an abomination against nature as is your
capitalism and belief in people living in the stomach’s of whales. Yes, the
truth isn’t relative. No one got up from the dead.

Jessica Montgomery

The bible doesn’t say whale, it says big fish.

lol. Sorry. I couldn’t help it since that is such a huge deal in
Maher’s religious movie. hahah.

Lauri

HAHAHAHA! That makes the bible completely, factually accurate now!
Good point.

Darrell
Lockhart

Lauri, I really appreciate the deep, cerebral, wise comments you
have made here. How old are you 4?

MrsMorrison

Homosexuality is against nature? Ok. So all those multiple species of
animals that have been proven to accept homosexual relationships among their
species are against nature, too? Those damnable, unnatural dolphins! Also,
along the “homosexuality is unnatural” thought process, the only natural
relationship is one that could produce offspring, right? As that’s the only
biological difference between the capabilities of a homosexual couple versus
a heterosexual couple. So, all those heterosexual couples who can’t conceive
a child are unnatural? All the couples who start a relationship well past
their child-bearing years? Unnatural? What about couples who CHOOSE not to
have children?! All against nature, I suppose? And where in the Bible does
it say Christ was Conservative? Have you even read the
Bible?!

Erica

Don’t forget the flamingos and penguins!

Alex

“Nature” has proved you wrong, my friend. In nature, there are tons of
gay animals, birds, mammals, you name it, there’s examples of homosexual
behavior. Like, say, dolphins, who have gay sex because they like sex. Wow!
It’s like nature actually doesn’t have a problem with homosexuality and only
idiots like you do.

Ceri Cat

Over 1,500 species of animals have been documented showing
homosexuality, definite support for natural indeed. I really wish they’d
stop with that unnatural BS, it’s far more a case of they don’t like the
idea so why should anyone else get to do it?

Bob K

You cannot be both a conservative and a Christian, the two are mutually
exclusive.

smb11

Being Christian and following Christ’s teachings are not necessarily the
same thing. “Christian” is a label; following Christ’s teachings is a
behavior. I prefer the long-winded “I am a follower of Christ’s teachings,
who despite the best of intentions and effort, is still falling far
short.”

You can call yourself a Christian and still not follow Christ’s
teachings. These “sound bites” as one poster called them, are core
teachings of Christ.

Levy

Um wow. What’s with the “wed be sending our troops into Palestine” garbage?
Maybe you should be writing for fox news? There is no such thing as
“palestine”. The so called Palestinians are the invaders from Jordan and
reich wing regimes like syria. We need to keep our left in America from
deteriorating into an anti semitic so called left that has metastasized in
europe. You have a warning for no racism yet you are spewing crap from the
protocols of the elders of zion? Shape up we know you can do better than
this.

JFischer

Willfully missing the point just because he mentioned Palestine?
Really?

Lauri

Haha. Someone’s been holstering that Palestine argument for just the
right moment. Hint: this wasn’t it. Double hint: re-read comments for
spelling and grammatical errors.

Hooper

Levy, you are willfully and purposefully siding with the left, a
political ideology that is anti-Israel. Next to radical Islamists, the
political left is your worst enemy and the Christian Right is your dearest
friend. Yet, here you are sidling up to them as if they will consider your
good intentions and not throw you to those who want to obliterate you. You
are completely delusional.

capitalist

Why should anyone support the theocracies and monarchies of the middle
east?

JFischer

Where does AATTP quote the fraud that is ‘The Protocols of the Elders of
Zion’?

paul fredine

amen!

J

I wish it were that easy to make a tea baggers opinion change. Personally
I find it incredibly ironic that people use the Bible to spout so much hate.
John 3:16 is a favorite passage, but apparently a couple sentences is all they
could manage to read.

Hooper

I’m not sure how showing, yet again, that you neither know what Christians
believe, that you have little understanding of the Bible, that you have no
systematic theology, or that you even bothered to talk to a conservative
Christian… helps your position.

JFischer

Right. The people who get up on Fox News and ‘Christian’ television and
spout their hateful nonsense are mass hallucinations.

These are quotes from the New Testament, Hooper. Are you saying that the
FOUNDING DOCUMENT of Christendom is superseded by the hateful screeds of
these people who would throw thousands into the streets to die if it would
net them an extra penny in profits?

Just admit that you are so contrary that you can’t admit ‘the other side’
will ever have a valid point.

paul fredine

since hooper is NEVER EVER WRONG (all hail the infallible hooper!) he
will never see, let alone *gasp!* admit that anyone who disagrees with his
point of view could ever be right….about anything. all christians good.
all not of the conservative bent are fools and ALWAYS WRONG! but just
ask him to prove something with actual facts and all he can come up with
are corrections to one’s spelling or grammar or the usual juvenile ‘i
don’t have to. you prove it’ (or the usual links that come from
limbaugh, jones or beck….that’s his proof). the only reason he’s here is
to try and show how superior he is and only proves, time and again, the
fact that he is a sanctimonious dillweed of a troll.
of course, if he
decides to answer this, it’s my liberal intolerance that he’ll delight in
pointing out. sorry, it’s just that i do not suffer fools
lightly.

Tragicape

I had a conversation with a coworker recently that was very much the
same as this minus the sanctimony. This sadly proves my point to him.
People take sides. They decide what they believe and stamp it shut. This
is the problem and we are doomed because of it. Neither of your
political or religious agendas are all right or all wrong. Ultimately
there is “one truth” whether it is a spiritual or scientific truth or
both I will be the first on here to admit I do not know. but what I do
know is humans are all far to narcissistic and arrogant to ever come
within a million miles of it. Far to easy to stand on pedestals and
point fingers back and forth. Accepting your innate ignorance while
perpetuating acceptance for any and all people, places, and things that
have no intention of molesting your right to ideas or “moral code” is
the only way to peaceful and productive coexistence. But I don’t see
that much in human history, I don’t see either side ever curbing their
sanctimonious blabbering. So here we sit staring at electric screens
whining. Meanwhile none our lives are better at the end because we all
know “what’s right” in our own little world. It’s impossible that such a
stupid species will find a way to unite for a common good or even
survival. Very sad.

Hooper

Tragicape is awesome!!!

Comicus

We’re still waiting for the first time you back up your claims, Hooper.
Those are the words of Jesus CHRIST, the leader of the CHRISTian religion,
straight from the Bible.

Hooper

I’m not going through all of them. Each one deserves an entire master’s
level thesis to deconstruct the sophomoric argument then offer a
reasonable interpretation of the verse – the conclusions and assumptions
are that wrong. So, pick one and I’ll obliterate it.

JFischer

Ah, yes, the usual argument: ‘No, when Jesus seems to disagree with
(belief system rationalizing cruelty and intolerance), he actually
supports it.’ Followed by many, many pages justifying exactly that
position.

There are some bits where Jesus behaves in a less-than-benevolent
manner, and we don’t understand them because we lack the context of the
original audience. But the verses quoted seem pretty unambiguous to
me.

Hooper

I don’t recall ever making that argument.

Still… one is left to wonder why Jesus behaving “in a less than
benevolent manner” deserves contextualizing but the verses posted by
the author do not? Perhaps because you have a political agenda and
liberalism always trumps everything else?
Perhaps.

Fred

It is what it is Hooper, we don’t need your single minded approval
for it. Everyone knows that the Bible is open to interpretation but what
isn’t is being objective and calling out biblical hypocrites, those who
say they follow the teachings but don’t exactly act on them. If it
happens more on the right (and I do see it happening more often on that
side and for the record I’m not a liberal) than I do on the left. The
right love to act like bullies towards anybody who is in them and the
left just lie down most of the time.

Although I must state that the left these days finally seem to be man
enough to tell the bullies that’s they have had enough.

I have no idea why you keep posting on here Hooper. You’re wasting
your time and accomplishing nothing.

Hooper

Uh, no, the Bible is not open to interpretation. But that’s another
argument.

Why am I here you ask? In the hopes you will realize that you are
ignorant of what conservatives believe, what Christians believe, and
what conservative Christians believe.

For example, in your statement above, I know of no Christian — and
I know quite a few — who would say they follow the teachings. Not one.
So your evaluation of them begins from a place that doesn’t exist.
Maybe you’ll realize that. Maybe.

You’re right about the left, you’re right. They are fighting back.
They fight back by labeling anyone they don’t like as racist, sexist,
blah, blah, blah – and the right has let them get away with it. The
left has done tremendous damage to the country with its rhetoric, and
one could forcefully argue that the damage they’ve done cannot be
undone. Which is another reason I’m here

Ceri Cat

Hooper interpreting the bible is quite permissible and acceptable.
Rabbis have been debating the interpretation of the laws of the OT for
millenia as to their precise meaning. Even Christianity in general
disputes the interpretation of the bible, this is part of why there’s
more than just Roman Catholics why we have protestants, orthodox
sects, baptists, etc.

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