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Headphone Amp using 12AU7

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Question about Tube Headphone Amp using 12AU7

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#1 of 22

8/27/12 at 7:50pm

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Tommy Thong

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Hi,

I found this schematic Tube headphone  Amplifier using 1 pc
12AU7

but  can i replace the mosfet IRF510 with BUF634 or diamond-buffer?

any comment or  suggestion are welcome

Tommy

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#2 of 22

8/27/12 at 9:56pm

KimLaroux

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I'm also interested in this. I would like to do something similar with my
Starving Student some day. I'm just not impressed with the resolution of the
MOSFET. Another option I've read that seemed interesting is a JFET output, but
I've never seen a JFET circuit used to drive headphones.

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#3 of 22

8/28/12 at 6:23am

Avro_Arrow

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You can put pretty much "anything" after the tube if you strip off the DC
first...

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#4 of 22

8/28/12 at 9:28am

nikongod

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Thong

Can I replace the mosfet IRF510 with BUF634 or diamond-buffer?

any comment or  suggestion are welcome

Tommy

Yes.

I think you will find great inspiration looking at the original millet hybrid
schematics.

It should not be hard to make something along those lines with a 12au7
tube.

12V is kinda weak. Use at least 24V or however much your buffers will allow
(~30V for buf634) and sort out the heater supply with a fancy resistor. Moar
volts moar betterer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by
Avro_Arrow

You can put pretty much "anything" after the tube if you strip off the DC
first...

There is no need to strip the DC if it is within the limits of whatever you
have after the tube.

There are certainly some advantages to doing this, but they come with added
cost and complexity.

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#5 of 22

8/28/12 at 8:09pm

KimLaroux

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod

Yes.

I think you will find great inspiration looking at the original millet hybrid
schematics.

It should not be hard to make something along those lines with a 12au7
tube.

12V is kinda weak. Use at least 24V or however much your buffers will allow
(~30V for buf634) and sort out the heater supply with a fancy resistor. Moar
volts moar betterer.

What do you mean by "sort out the heater supply with a fancy resistor"? To
use a resistor to drop the voltage to 13 volts for the heaters?

There are many hybrid designs out there, which uses different output stages.
The original Millett Hybrid uses an Op-Amp as unity gain, powered on a single
rail supply. Then the DIY community created the MAX millett hybrid, which
replaced the Op-Amp with a Diamond buffer, with choices between BJT, JFET and
MOSFET. The SOHA also used an Op-Amp but with a dual rail supply, which
eliminated the need for an output capacitor. The SOHA II replaces this Op-Amp
with a discrete single-ended buffer...

And that's just naming a few. I suppose any of these can be used with a
12AU7? The real question though is which is best, which is actually an upgrade
from a single MOSFET... I read for hours on each of these designs, but I can't
make up my mind as to which to try next.

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#6 of 22

8/29/12 at 5:54am

Avro_Arrow

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How about something like this:

I don"t have a link to the original source.

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#7 of 22

8/29/12 at 7:35am

nikongod

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KimLaroux

What do you mean by "sort out the heater supply with a fancy resistor"? To
use a resistor to drop the voltage to 13 volts for the heaters?

There are many hybrid designs out there, which uses different output stages.
The original Millett Hybrid uses an Op-Amp as unity gain, powered on a single
rail supply. Then the DIY community created the MAX millett hybrid, which
replaced the Op-Amp with a Diamond buffer, with choices between BJT, JFET and
MOSFET. The SOHA also used an Op-Amp but with a dual rail supply, which
eliminated the need for an output capacitor. The SOHA II replaces this Op-Amp
with a discrete single-ended buffer...

And that's just naming a few. I suppose any of these can be used with a
12AU7? The real question though is which is best, which is actually an upgrade
from a single MOSFET... I read for hours on each of these designs, but I can't
make up my mind as to which to try next.

Yepp, just a big fat resistor. Or I guess you could use a LM317 to regulate
it or something. But there is no reason to shy away from power supply voltages
that don't line up perfectly with your chosen tube heaters.

The original Millet hybrid used a BUF634 buffer, not an op amp.

With a few quick changes any of the output stages could be used with a 12au7.
I guess the question becomes one of "how well does the 12au7 work with lowish on
the plate"? IMO this is the strength of the 12ae6 (and its brothers designed to
operate at similar voltage) in the classic millet - the tube is being used
exactly how it was designed to be used. None of the "12V across a tube that
really likes at least 70V" that we have with other hybrids.

The MHSS does not suffer because of the mosfet, it suffers because the tube
has only ~20V across it. Mosfets are pimp.

Totally tangentially to this thread, but have you tried to use a CCS on the
tube in the MHSS? I wonder how much it would tighten things up & if you
would like the change. IME CCS loading has a startling effect on other
designs.

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#8 of 22

8/29/12 at 10:42am

dsavitsk

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I'd agree with everything
Ari said. It is the tube, not the FET, that is the problem. Another tube to look
at in addition to the 12AE6 is the 12U7, which is basically a low voltage
version of the 12AU7. Just do a web search for space charge tubes.

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#9 of 22

8/29/12 at 3:14pm

KimLaroux

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My MSSH has a 30-15-0-15-30 transformer, and I use the TL783 to regulate the
48v for the whole amp. This allows me to experiment a lot with different
voltages and power rails. One possibility is to raise the plate voltage. You say
it's 20v, but isn't it 48 in the Starving Student?

I must admit I don't know much about tubes. I don't even know how they
actually work. Anyone has documentation I should read first? If you guys say the
tubes are actually the bottleneck in the MSSH, I'll study this part of the
amplifier then. With my build, I can raise the voltage for the tubes to a few
hundred volts if I wanted to. I can create different power rails for the tubes
and the MOSFETs. Before I do that though I should learn how tubes actually
work...

I did notice that some hybrid amplifier had CCS on the tubes, while the MSSH
does not. Since I don't even know how tubes work, I could not rationalise this
choice. I'm totally open to learn about it and try it out though! Where should I
start?

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#10 of 22

8/29/12 at 4:45pm

dsavitsk

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KimLaroux

Where should I start?

For the very basics on how a tube works: http://electriciantraining.tpub.com/14178/css/14178_13.htm

For a basic intro on how to incorporate one into a circuit: http://www.ecpaudio.com/pdf/parafeed_basics.pdf

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#11 of 22

8/29/12 at 5:28pm

KimLaroux

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Thanks! I am currently reading the Wikipedia pages about vacuum tube. I don't
know why I haven't read these before... considering how many other useless pages
I read there.

Triodes are a lot simpler than I expected! I was always scared by the drawing
of a tube in a circuit, but now that I know what each internal parts are, it's
quite simple. I'll read those links next.

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#12 of 22

8/30/12 at 8:23am

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Tommy Thong

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk

For the very basics on how a tube works: http://electriciantraining.tpub.com/14178/css/14178_13.htm

For a basic intro on how to incorporate one into a circuit: http://www.ecpaudio.com/pdf/parafeed_basics.pdf

Thank you for the link....it's very interesting

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avro_Arrow

You can put pretty much "anything" after the tube if you strip off the DC
first...

and how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by
Avro_Arrow

How about something like this:

I don"t have a link to the original source.

i saw from this schematic, they put 330nF between tube and diamond-buffer, is
it gonna strip-off the DC?

is it necessary to use fet LND150?

i will probably try this schematic.

I'm  sorry..i'm just rookie @ tube's thing

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#13 of 22

8/30/12 at 9:13am

Avro_Arrow

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Yes, the 330n blocks the DC from the tube.

The LND150, 1k and 360R form a current source.

You can use any JFet that will give the correct

current even if you have to adjust the resistor values.

You could use anything from a simple resistor

to a "ring of two" or LED current source as well.

Here is an easy substitute.

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#14 of 22

9/1/12 at 9:24am

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Tommy Thong

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is it like this?

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#15 of 22

9/1/12 at 10:01am

Avro_Arrow

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Ya, thats the right idea.

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