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Dynaco ST-70 Series III

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Poll: ST-70 Series 3

This poll will
close on 6th June 2015 at 04:48 PM

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can
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ST-70 Series 3

As original as possible

What Hafler would have done today

Other

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Yesterday, 02:55 PM

#21

Eli Duttman

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Monroe Township, NJ

Quote:

Past
that, since this is a commercial venture, I'm not interested in
giving free design advice past "basic Dynaco input stage topology
can be made to work very well if that's what they want to do."

Uh huh!
Enough freebies have been provided. The time has come to say "cross my
palm with silver".

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Yesterday, 02:55 PM

#22

DF96

diyAudio Member

Join Date: May 2007

So let me get this right: it isn't really a
Dynaco (as the name has been simply bought by people with no technical or
commercial connection with the original firm) and it probably won't really
be an ST-70 (as it could have quite a different circuit) but it may be
called a "Dynaco ST-70 series iii"? It will still have valves, and an EL34
PP output, and that is sufficient to retain the name?

And how can a
new company have a strong reputation?

Personally, I wish we could
prohibit brands from being simply bought. Brand names used to mean some
continuity in people and hence quality. Now they are simply pieces of
empty IP. Curiously, as brands have less and less real meaning they seem
to have acquired greater monetary value as a marketing tool. I guess the
customers have only themselves to blame for this.

DF96

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Yesterday, 03:02 PM

#23

Bob01605

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: New England

Check out this thread on the Dynaco Tube
Audio Forum for more information on this Canadian company's attempt to
acquire the "Dynaco " trade name ..

Canadian company attempts to acquire Dynaco trade
name

Bob Latino

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http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm

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Yesterday, 03:57 PM

#24

leadbelly

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Dec 2002

Location: Calgary, Alberta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob01605

Check out this thread on the Dynaco
Tube Audio Forum for more information on this Canadian company's
attempt to acquire the "Dynaco " trade name ..

Canadian company attempts to acquire Dynaco trade
name

Bob Latino

All I see
is one post containing a bad hyperlink.

Really, you're already
deeming it as "steal" to quote you? What's the charge? Armed application
form filling?

__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools
and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full
of doubts. Bertrand Russell

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Yesterday, 04:31 PM

#25

Bob01605

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: New England

Quote:

Originally Posted by leadbelly

All I see is one post containing a
bad hyperlink.

Really, you're already deeming it as "steal"
to quote you? What's the charge? Armed application form
filling?

Evidently the Search
hyperlink expires after a period of time .. Yes - the links are expired
and have been removed from that post ..

Question > If the Dynaco
trademark name is already held by ESS Laboratory, INC in Sacramento, CA a
division of Marlborough Enterprises, LTD and has been held by them since
1987, then how is it possible for that Canadian company to acquire the
Dynaco trade name to sell audio gear ? The poll that was started is IMHO
premature because that company still (as yet) does not have the rights to
the Dynaco trade name. If they were somehow able to grab the trade name
from ESS Laboratorys, it would, IMHO, constitute a "steal" of the trade
name.

Bob Latino

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Today, 02:22 PM

#26

DF96

diyAudio Member

Join Date: May 2007

They could buy the trade name. That is
perfectly legal, although perhaps morally misleading.

DF96

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Today, 03:42 PM

#27

audioregen

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Oct 2010

Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by DF96

So let me get this right: it isn't
really a Dynaco (as the name has been simply bought by people with
no technical or commercial connection with the original firm) and it
probably won't really be an ST-70 (as it could have quite a
different circuit) but it may be called a "Dynaco ST-70 series iii"?
It will still have valves, and an EL34 PP output, and that is
sufficient to retain the name?

And how can a new company have
a strong reputation?

Personally, I wish we could prohibit
brands from being simply bought. Brand names used to mean some
continuity in people and hence quality. Now they are simply pieces
of empty IP. Curiously, as brands have less and less real meaning
they seem to have acquired greater monetary value as a marketing
tool. I guess the customers have only themselves to blame for
this.

Yes, I agree it should be
prohibited. My response to the OP would be -

Radial Engineering,
which is the alleged company to acquire the Dynaco name is not new. But
perhaps, they intend to create a "new" company just to pursue a product
line based on the name. Franky, I find the idea as a whole to be
completely repugnant. A company with no such "hifi" background wants to
capitalize on a famous and successful name brand of the past.
Disgusting!!! Design and build your own, with your name on it, then see if
you sell it, on it's own merits. So, you have some geezer that got his
education in the 60's? So what! No matter who he is, he's no David Hafler,
so how the heck do you propose to do "what Hafler would have done"? Nobody
knows what Hafler would have done today. Have you been living under a rock
- Dynakit Parts already makes duplicates of the original Dynaco amplifiers
that are about as close to original as you can get, including the iron,
for those who want that. There is a whole cottage industry based around
modifications for the ST-70 for those who want to "upgrade". Just what do
you propose to do that isn't already available for a fraction of the cost
that you'd likely charge? And lets not forget Triode electronics or
tubes4hifi that also produce Dynaco clones, and have for years. Sorry, but
to me, it looks like you are only trying to "glom on" to the Dynaco name
so you can stick it on anything you come up with to use as a marketing
tool. I say, just leave it alone. Ok rant over!

Oh, and by the way,
if the OP is actually involved with Radial, say hello to Nancy S. for me
if she's still there. Tell her that George R. (from Omnex) says hi. We
used to work together years ago.

audioregen

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Today, 03:49 PM

#28

bear

expert in tautology

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Apr 2002

Location: New York State USA

The real problem/issue is that selling a
"new" build power amp in the 35w class today at a price point of
$1200 per unit is unlikely to sustain a company. It's something one or two
guys could pull off in a basement/garage set up, with sufficient $$ to
waste/spend on the gamble that they could actually sell enough to make
themselves what is a working man's salary for a year.

Figure two
guys working for $35kUSD gross = $70kUSD. Now take the cost of the
unit at $1200 and make the (unlikely) assumption of 1/5 of price = parts
cost, so $250 = parts cost. That leaves $950/sale to cover all business
expenses, advertising, costs of doing biz, anything NOT electronic
(brochures, catalogs, manuals, boxes, packing materials, etc.). So let's
randomly pick another $250. That leaves $700 left. Take away corporate/DBA
taxes. So, about $500 now. Meaning that you'd need to sell 150 units just
to make a very small salary. And, that is more than 10 units per month.

It's possible, but not so simple, especially since IF you want to
do this right you'd need to get all sorts of things "right" before you
actually sell a single unit. Like the output iron, you can't just walk in
to some random winder and "get an A-470" even with an exemplar they can
open up and dissect. Quite a number of iterations usually end up being
required - assuming you can test the iron properly urself. You can't get a
plated silkscreened punched chassis cheap, and certainly not in
small quantities. So there is a boatload of upfront costs and overheads
before you even have a prototyped product, and long before you have a
production ready product.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing
it - with or without the Dynaco name.
And, wait! Yep, there are tons
of tube amp manufacturers right now, plus the used market.

But,
perhaps if you have some competitive advantages in one or more of these
areas, you could make a go of it...

_-_-

__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com/
-- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74
Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware!
]

Last edited by bear; Today at 03:51 PM.

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Today, 03:54 PM

#29

SY

diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2002

Location: Chicagoland

Blog Entries: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioregen

Franky, I find the idea as a whole
to be completely repugnant. A company with no such "hifi" background
wants to capitalize on a famous and successful name brand of the
past.

Not exactly unprecedented (see,
for example, tubes labeled Mullard, Genalex, Tung Sol, or Telefunken). Or
amps labeled Marantz.

__________________
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power of putting two and two together was annihilated."- EM Forster

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Today, 03:57 PM

#30

bear

expert in tautology

diyAudio Member

Join Date: Apr 2002

Location: New York State USA

You guys should do a search once in a
while.

http://www.cepro.com/article/radial_engineering_relaunches_hafler_amp_brand/

__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com/
-- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74
Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware!
]

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